Need a new program, badly!

[xshawnxearthx]

I want to get stronger/gain muscle/condition, and lose fat at the same time.

I know that the biggest thing is diet, but I need a new lifting program.

I play ball two-three days a week, so lifting is kept to 3 nights.

Things I like to do...
squat
dl
row
pull ups
leg press
rdl's
db bp
dips
ohp
and obviously some sort of arm work.

What would be the best rep range, warm up sets, and placement. Want to spend about an hour in the gym with some cardio/complexes mixed in.

 

[handoferebus]

www.stronglifts.com 5x5 program is great. Combine that with rowing after every workout.

 

[xdnine]

That looks like a good workout. I will be using this for now on since ive been looking for a good workout plan too.

 

[xshawnxearthx]

I forgot to mention, I DON"T want to squat three days a week. I tried SS for a few months and progressed very little. When I went back to squatting once a week my numbers jumped up passed my old PR's.

 

[BombShelter]

Hi guys, first post here.

Your program doesn't have to be a "name brand" one or even really complicated. The exercises you listed are about all you need, maybe throw in some curls and you're good. If you want to lift 3x per week you could arrange it a couple of ways:

Upper/Lower split: simply alternate upper body workouts with lower body workouts
example workout A- superset pullups with dips, rows with db bench, and curls with either some triceps isolation work or maybe some rotator cuff
workout B- squat and leg curl one workout, next time you do legs do deadlifts and leg presses
with this workout one week would be ABA, the next would be BAB, the third would be ABA, etc.
Total body: this is simple. just pick 4 exercises (one each for upper body push, upper body pull, a quadriceps exercise and a posterior chain [hamstring/glute] exercise)

Now, since you want to lose fat here are your options:
Cardio- if you can, you are best off doing some fasted cardio right when you wake up and before you have breakfast. Basically the fuel that your body uses for cardio later in the day is gotten from the food that you've eaten, but if you do cardio on an empty stomach then your body goes straight to fat burning mode.

if that isn't an option for you for whatever reason then do some intervals after you workout- I prefer some sort of elliptical for mine, I've done rowing before to great effect. Treadmills really suck for this kind of thing because you have to keep resetting them every 15-30 seconds and as you get tired it becomes a drag.

Diet- 1. keep a food log 2. cut out all sugar 3. as closely as possible eat lean meats and vegetables

Simple as that. Helped me lose 40 lbs in the last year.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

Hi guys, first post here.

Your program doesn't have to be a "name brand" one or even really complicated. The exercises you listed are about all you need, maybe throw in some curls and you're good. If you want to lift 3x per week you could arrange it a couple of ways:

Upper/Lower split: simply alternate upper body workouts with lower body workouts
example workout A- superset pullups with dips, rows with db bench, and curls with either some triceps isolation work or maybe some rotator cuff
workout B- squat and leg curl one workout, next time you do legs do deadlifts and leg presses
with this workout one week would be ABA, the next would be BAB, the third would be ABA, etc.
Total body: this is simple. just pick 4 exercises (one each for upper body push, upper body pull, a quadriceps exercise and a posterior chain [hamstring/glute] exercise)

Now, since you want to lose fat here are your options:
Cardio- if you can, you are best off doing some fasted cardio right when you wake up and before you have breakfast. Basically the fuel that your body uses for cardio later in the day is gotten from the food that you've eaten, but if you do cardio on an empty stomach then your body goes straight to fat burning mode.

if that isn't an option for you for whatever reason then do some intervals after you workout- I prefer some sort of elliptical for mine, I've done rowing before to great effect. Treadmills really suck for this kind of thing because you have to keep resetting them every 15-30 seconds and as you get tired it becomes a drag.

Diet- 1. keep a food log 2. cut out all sugar 3. as closely as possible eat lean meats and vegetables

Simple as that. Helped me lose 40 lbs in the last year.

OP- what have you been doing up to this point?

Bombshelter, please provide support for this statement in bold.

Otherwise, good suggestions.

 

[jt7]

OP- what have you been doing up to this point?

Bombshelter, please provide support for this statement in bold.

Otherwise, good suggestions.

i support bombsheltes idea of fasted cardio, i prefer to have some whey protein isolate only in my system for am cardio or amino acids at the least, but either way it will improve fat burning

 

[bbomber4]

I forgot to mention, I DON"T want to squat three days a week. I tried SS for a few months and progressed very little. When I went back to squatting once a week my numbers jumped up passed my old PR's.

That is my only issue with this. Squatting 3x a week seems excessive. Such a large muscle group take more time to recover. Maybe I am naive about it, but sounds like a lot.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

i support bombsheltes idea of fasted cardio, i prefer to have some whey protein isolate only in my system for am cardio or amino acids at the least, but either way it will improve fat burning

No, it doesn't. But I know it is a popular bodybuilder belief, so I won't say anymore about it. It really isn't a big deal, you have to do so called "cardio" sometime, whether you eat or not, but to the OP, just don't get in your head it has to be in a hungry, or fasted, or whatever state. That is all I am saying.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

No, it doesn't. But I know it is a popular bodybuilder belief, so I won't say anymore about it. It really isn't a big deal, you have to do so called "cardio" sometime, whether you eat or not, but to the OP, just don't get in your head it has to be in a hungry, or fasted, or whatever state. That is all I am saying.

Here is a bookmark I have, without scanning any research articles.
here is why I don't agree with fasted cardio, but then again, I train athletes and not those looking to do whatever. Though one and a half of these well respected guys seem to like it (I would put Berardi in the No) I don't see a reason for it.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...mance_interviews/the_fasted_cardio_roundtable

 

[Benched02]

The 5x5 program mentioned above has given me the best results out of everything I've done so far.

 

[xshawnxearthx]

OP- what have you been doing up to this point?

Bombshelter, please provide support for this statement in bold.

Otherwise, good suggestions.

I've tried a lot of different things.

When I was better from knee surgery, I tried SS. It was ok, but squatting three times a week felt like way too much stress on my lower body. Plus I made very little progression.

After a few months of that I went back to an old faithful, MAX-OT. I love lifting 5 days a week, but with my job, and softball, I really don't have the time to get there 5 days a week. I did that for 12 weeks and had excellent results again.

Once softball started I wanted to lose a little more weight so I started riding the bike, taking bp, and doing bb/db complexes at the gym. I like the complexes, but I'm starting to second guess everything(like usual). I miss lifting heavy, but I do like the the fact that I'm drenched afterwards and feel like I've really gotten a good workout.

i've been thinking about something like this...just not sure what rep ranges i should work in. thinking the 3-5 or 4-6.

squat (with chins in between sets)
rdl's

bp
dips


dl
rows


ohp
arm work

every workout followed by a different cardio. one day hill running, one day bike, one day db complex, one day barbell complex.

now it's just a matter of rep range.

tue a
thu b
sat c
tue d
thu a
sat b
tue c
sat d

every three weeks i would hit two cycles. I would just throw OHP on bp day, but with bp and dips i think it's a lot of push.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

Let me just say on teh fasted cardio real quick that one of the reasons I don't like it for the average gym-goers (and my clietns) is that you need a little more energy to lift weights AND do cardio in the same session. Therefore, reducing your energy stores even more with fasted cardio, then going to pump iron just isn't going to work. And if you lift weights first, you may not have the energy to reach the full potential on load and volume for that day. Besides, for an extra what, 4 ounces of lost body weight over the course of a week or two, it really isn't worth it.

As for your program, the rep ranges you are unsure about, really doesn't matter between 3 and 6 reps. But if you think you do fell a difference between those rep ranges, then may do some sort of wave over the course of three week cycle, say 3 reps on week, 8 the next and 5 the next then repeat.

Also, something I like for extra weight loss is including this in your warm up. Do a set of pushups, lunges (reps for each leg, not total) and pullups. Start at 5 reps the first day and every workout, add 1 rep. Work up to 50 to 60 reps over the course of a couple months. Just adding this to my warm up and I lost and additional 8 pounds over 6-8 weeks, and this was a 30 minute total workout 3x/wk with no "cardio".

 

[Onefiver]

Fasted cardio is probably only helpful when you are talking about an already relatively lean individual who is looking to target the some particularly stubborn areas (lower back/abs for men, upper thighs/hips for women).

Otherwise, an overall energy deficit is sufficient for most people.

 

[BombShelter]

OP- what have you been doing up to this point?

Bombshelter, please provide support for this statement in bold.

Otherwise, good suggestions.

{{{{{{bro-science alert}}}}}}
3 reasons: 1, when you eat food your body produces insulin to store said food, and fat-burning is really turned down when insulin is present. I SUPPOSE that this is related to cortisol and insulin's antagonistic relationship, it being that when one is elevated the other is inhibited.

2, your glycogen levels are at their low point in the morning after that 8 hour fast you just did. Glycogen = fuel for the muscles, and if your body can't use its preferred fuel source its going to go to its number 2 option, your lovehandles.

3, doing cardio separate from your workout gives you a second metabolic hit per day, which can only help.

4, Pre-contest bodybuilders do it. Those mofo's get crazy shredded.

I'm not saying that any program would be a bust without it, its just a good tool to have.

 

[BombShelter]

Also, something I like for extra weight loss is including this in your warm up. Do a set of pushups, lunges (reps for each leg, not total) and pullups. Start at 5 reps the first day and every workout, add 1 rep. Work up to 50 to 60 reps over the course of a couple months. Just adding this to my warm up and I lost and additional 8 pounds over 6-8 weeks, and this was a 30 minute total workout 3x/wk with no "cardio".

Were you dieting at all while getting those results? How were your regular workouts affected, if at all?

 

[wcoastsoftball]

{{{{{{bro-science alert}}}}}}
3 reasons: 1, when you eat food your body produces insulin to store said food, and fat-burning is really turned down when insulin is present. I SUPPOSE that this is related to cortisol and insulin's antagonistic relationship, it being that when one is elevated the other is inhibited.

2, your glycogen levels are at their low point in the morning after that 8 hour fast you just did. Glycogen = fuel for the muscles, and if your body can't use its preferred fuel source its going to go to its number 2 option, your lovehandles.

3, doing cardio separate from your workout gives you a second metabolic hit per day, which can only help.

4, Pre-contest bodybuilders do it. Those mofo's get crazy shredded.

I'm not saying that any program would be a bust without it, its just a good tool to have.

I got you on that, but I hope you understand my point on it, as far as training someone, even for fat loss this is not an effective way of having them reach their goals. First off they need to bring the calories in eventually, secondly I want them to have the energy to perform my workouts.


The mofo's get shredded because that is the way they get paid, so they can take risks and such to push their bodies beyond what is socially normal, for us it will make no difference.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

Were you dieting at all while getting those results? How were your regular workouts affected, if at all?

No abnormal change to diet. I worked up to I think 25 or so reps before school ended and I haven't got my routine back to summer hours with clinical work, patients, clients and website creation, plus kids and softball and hockey lol. May just do what I normally do, take the summer off.

 

[Flash]

I like it when newbs front wcoastsoftball with broscience. It always makes me snicker.

 

[xshawnxearthx]

Let me just say on teh fasted cardio real quick that one of the reasons I don't like it for the average gym-goers (and my clietns) is that you need a little more energy to lift weights AND do cardio in the same session. Therefore, reducing your energy stores even more with fasted cardio, then going to pump iron just isn't going to work. And if you lift weights first, you may not have the energy to reach the full potential on load and volume for that day. Besides, for an extra what, 4 ounces of lost body weight over the course of a week or two, it really isn't worth it.

As for your program, the rep ranges you are unsure about, really doesn't matter between 3 and 6 reps. But if you think you do fell a difference between those rep ranges, then may do some sort of wave over the course of three week cycle, say 3 reps on week, 8 the next and 5 the next then repeat.

Also, something I like for extra weight loss is including this in your warm up. Do a set of pushups, lunges (reps for each leg, not total) and pullups. Start at 5 reps the first day and every workout, add 1 rep. Work up to 50 to 60 reps over the course of a couple months. Just adding this to my warm up and I lost and additional 8 pounds over 6-8 weeks, and this was a 30 minute total workout 3x/wk with no "cardio".

This sounds like what I usually do for a warm up. A set of pull ups to failure(usually about 2-3), bw squats(10), pushups(10), squats(10), dips(3-6), squats(10). Then I just start lifting.

The 4-6 reg range is what has worked best for me. Tried the 8-10 or 10-12, etc etc, but the 4-6 range I feel really does it.

and boy, would i never want to do anything without eating. cardio, lifting, anything. need to eat to live.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

This sounds like what I usually do for a warm up. A set of pull ups to failure(usually about 2-3), bw squats(10), pushups(10), squats(10), dips(3-6), squats(10). Then I just start lifting.

The 4-6 reg range is what has worked best for me. Tried the 8-10 or 10-12, etc etc, but the 4-6 range I feel really does it.

and boy, would i never want to do anything without eating. cardio, lifting, anything. need to eat to live.

If I remember correctly, you were a pretty heavy guy, correct? If not, sorry.

I would suggest alernate pulls to get the reps in as the days go by, if you want to try that warm up.

Not sure if the squats would be as effective, but also not sure if walking front lunge would be best on your knees until the weight comes down.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

This sounds like what I usually do for a warm up. A set of pull ups to failure(usually about 2-3), bw squats(10), pushups(10), squats(10), dips(3-6), squats(10). Then I just start lifting.

The 4-6 reg range is what has worked best for me. Tried the 8-10 or 10-12, etc etc, but the 4-6 range I feel really does it.

and boy, would i never want to do anything without eating. cardio, lifting, anything. need to eat to live.

And I prefer lower reps as well, as you once i get over 8 I get bored. But I would suggest at least going up to there, that is the number that works best for power development.

 

[xshawnxearthx]

If I remember correctly, you were a pretty heavy guy, correct? If not, sorry.

I would suggest alernate pulls to get the reps in as the days go by, if you want to try that warm up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fm1QUwuwp0
Not sure if the squats would be as effective, but also not sure if walking front lunge would be best on your knees until the weight comes down.

I am a pretty big dude. I was doing pull downs for the volume. But I'll check that out. Kind of like seated pull ups...

I stay clear of lunges due to how my knees feel. That's also why I do a lot more bw squats to make up for it.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

I like it when newbs front wcoastsoftball with broscience. It always makes me snicker.

Love you Flash, where you been? BTW, your new blog address won't show up in my RSS feed.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

I am a pretty big dude. I was doing pull downs for the volume. But I'll check that out. Kind of like seated pull ups...

I stay clear of lunges due to how my knees feel. That's also why I do a lot more bw squats to make up for it.

How about step ups?

 

[Flash]

Love you Flash, where you been? BTW, your new blog address won't show up in my RSS feed.

Huh? Crap ... I'll check that out.

Been laying low. Starting to get lots of things to say now, though.

 

[xshawnxearthx]

How about step ups?

step up work fine.

 

[gorillaboy55]

{{{{{{bro-science alert}}}}}}
3 reasons: 1, when you eat food your body produces insulin to store said food, and fat-burning is really turned down when insulin is present. I SUPPOSE that this is related to cortisol and insulin's antagonistic relationship, it being that when one is elevated the other is inhibited.

2, your glycogen levels are at their low point in the morning after that 8 hour fast you just did. Glycogen = fuel for the muscles, and if your body can't use its preferred fuel source its going to go to its number 2 option, your lovehandles.

3, doing cardio separate from your workout gives you a second metabolic hit per day, which can only help.

, Pre-contest bodybuilders do it. Those mofo's get crazy shredded.



I'm not saying that any program would be a bust without it, its just a good tool to have.

please tell me you dont believe this? in addition to several different peptide bases and about 3,000 to 5,000 mg of anabolics including insulin..and any number of other things

 

[gorillaboy55]

I am a pretty big dude. I was doing pull downs for the volume. But I'll check that out. Kind of like seated pull ups...

I stay clear of lunges due to how my knees feel. That's also why I do a lot more bw squats to make up for it.

just curious but how big are you? do you have any knees issues? as a simple weight reduction id suggest any type of mobility work just walking until you lose some and also try and strength/stabalize the joint and condition the tissues

 

[gorillaboy55]

ive had pretty good success with the 5-3-1 program. with a few modifications and waving the volume of extra work. ive noticed i havent been beat up as much and ive noticed that as the weeks progress my conditioning gets better and my recovery as well....the biggest thing for me is i dont get the cns hit that i used to.