Need Feedback ASAP - Mike Ultra II in USSSA Play

AUsoftball

AUsoftball

Supreme Commander of All
Good Evening,

I would like your feedback as we played a championship game this evening and the other team was found to be using an Mike Ultra II, the Ultra II they carried had the 2000 & 2004 ASA certification stamp. As a pitcher, my biggest concern is my safety, as a season Ultra II bat can produce serious velocity, and could cause a major injury to a player/pitcher. I have looked for an approved USSSA bat list, and cant find anything, and the Ultra II does not carry the required USSSA certification mark.....therefore is it legal for USSSA play?

I know there is no issue with using an ASA bat for USSSA play, but since the Ultra II is banned for ASA play regardless of certification stamps, and since the bat does not carry a USSSA stamp, where does it fall?

Your feedback is greatly appreciated

Jeff
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
no ultra or ultra 2 was made that had both the 2000 and 2004 stamps on them. also common sense says if it has no stamp it's not legal
 
AUsoftball

AUsoftball

Supreme Commander of All
We were informed that the bat was sent back to Miken to receive the 2004 stamp. I did see both stamps on the bat, but since the bat did not carry a USSSA stamp, I protested the use of it.
 
EAJuggalo

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
As of 2015, if it does not have the USSSA thumbprint stamp on it, it is not legal for sanctioned play. End of story. Prior to that the U2 was on the banned list.
 
hitsone

hitsone

Well-Known Member
It is on the ASA banned list, it does not have any USSSA stamp therefore it is a non approved bat, batter is out and ejected.Coach is ejected also. If there is noone to replace the ejected player the game is over. Offended team is given a 7-0 win.

Having said all that, it applies to "sanctioned" USSSA events. For league play leagues may have their own bat lists or bat qualifications that supercede USSSA rules and couild allow bats without the USSSA stamp. Check your league rules. By league rules the batter may just have to change bats or may be an auto out for the rest of the game. Your coach should make sure that all players have a copy of the league rules.

And yes it is on the SSUSA approved list for senior play.
You were right to be worried about it's abilities. for years it was the bat that all the other senior bats were compared to
 
AUsoftball

AUsoftball

Supreme Commander of All
The league I play in allows ASA bats, and USSSA bats. ASA and USSSA bat use was approved by the league commissioner some time ago. To make a long story short, the player caught attempting to use the Ultra II got very defensive when I called him on it, and swore that the bat was approved by the league commissioner (It turned out that the commissioner never approved the bat, so the player falsified his approval). The umpire ruled in my favor and made the other team ditch the bat. The rest of the game was mayhem as there was constant issues coming back to the whole incident. From the sounds of things, the Ultra II may have had a 2000 ASA stamp, but should have never had a 2004 ASA stamp (it is possible that the bat was altered to add the 2004 ASA stamp, as a number of board members have stated that the ultra II never carried a 2004 ASA stamp, and no agency or Miken would place a 2004 ASA stamp on the bat). The other team has been warned that any additional bat issues will result in them being banned from any future league play indefinitely. Really bothers me that someone would place a person's safety at risk, all to hit the ball further.
 
Last edited:
EAJuggalo

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
hitsone said:
It is on the ASA banned list, it does not have any USSSA stamp therefore it is a non approved bat, batter is out and ejected.Coach is ejected also. If there is noone to replace the ejected player the game is over. Offended team is given a 7-0 win.
Click to expand...
Can I get a rule citation please? Under USSSA rule 7.2.B The batter is out once he hits the ball with an illegal bat. There is no mention of ejection unless the bat is altered, and the coach is only ejected in youth play for the use of an altered bat. Also there is no provision for a forfeit due to ejection without a sub unless you are playing Major, AA, A or the ejection brings the team below 9 players.
 
96packers

96packers

OG Titletown
Surprised that someone would actually cheat. Have also heard rumors of guys using a "SHAVED BAT". Never heard of such things and can't imagine a softball would cheat to improve himself!!


:rolleyes: D I C K S
 
Country469

Country469

Well-Known Member
The Umpire is responsible for the bats being checked before the game OP..........this is where the whole issue starts and ends
 
ShortYellowBus

ShortYellowBus

Well-Known Member
Just the idea that the manufacturers would print two ASA stamps on a bat is ridiculous.

This is from three weeks ago. I hope it’s all sorted out by now.
 
BigWhiffa

BigWhiffa

Underwear Researcher
there are Ultras that came out like 5 years ago that had new asa stamps on them no ultra II has teh 2004 stamp on it.
 
Country469

Country469

Well-Known Member
Well to be fair, USSSA had some Eastons where you could send em back and get a new stamp etched in the bat and it was fine. I dont remember the model #, so the idea a bat could carry two stamps is not completely foreign, throw in average league guys don't know this **** and here we are.
 
Hiltz

Hiltz

Built for comfort
Country469 said:
Well to be fair, USSSA had some Eastons where you could send em back and get a new stamp etched in the bat and it was fine. I dont remember the model #, so the idea a bat could carry two stamps is not completely foreign...
Click to expand...

There were a few models released just before the new stamp came into play (SCN18, SCN19, SCN20BW off the top of my head). The first wave was released with no thumbprint, then USSSA mandated the new stamp. Easton got the bats certified under the new standard and etched the thumbprint on their remaining unreleased inventory. As far as I know they never took any used bats back to etch the stamp.
 
EAJuggalo

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Country469 said:
The Umpire is responsible for the bats being checked before the game OP..........this is where the whole issue starts and ends
Click to expand...
There is no mandate to check bats before a game in USSSA. In championship play, either the bats are tested and buckets are used. Or bats are examined by the umpire whenever they feel the need or the opposing team questions one. I usually do the first game of a tournament, but at Worlds last year I looked at probably 5 bats the whole weekend. All for sounding a little off, but nothing I could definitively say there was something wrong with them.
Hiltz said:
There were a few models released just before the new stamp came into play (SCN18, SCN19, SCN20BW off the top of my head). The first wave was released with no thumbprint, then USSSA mandated the new stamp. Easton got the bats certified under the new standard and etched the thumbprint on their remaining unreleased inventory. As far as I know they never took any used bats back to etch the stamp.
Click to expand...
I believe the SCN17BH was also on the list. All were bats that hadn't made it past the distributors. At least from what I have been told. Caused quite a stir when I threw a guy out for using one the first time. Then had to apologize when I saw him a month later.
 
Country469

Country469

Well-Known Member
EAJuggalo said:
There is no mandate to check bats before a game in USSSA. In championship play, either the bats are tested and buckets are used. Or bats are examined by the umpire whenever they feel the need or the opposing team questions one. I usually do the first game of a tournament, but at Worlds last year I looked at probably 5 bats the whole weekend. All for sounding a little off, but nothing I could definitively say there was something wrong with them.
I believe the SCN17BH was also on the list. All were bats that hadn't made it past the distributors. At least from what I have been told. Caused quite a stir when I threw a guy out for using one the first time. Then had to apologize when I saw him a month later.
Click to expand...


well yeah the check at that point is being done at the buckets and not getting into play if not legal to begin with, so essentially the same thing or better
 
oppo

oppo

Coach
EAJuggalo said:
Can I get a rule citation please? Under USSSA rule 7.2.B The batter is out once he hits the ball with an illegal bat. There is no mention of ejection unless the bat is altered, and the coach is only ejected in youth play for the use of an altered bat. Also there is no provision for a forfeit due to ejection without a sub unless you are playing Major, AA, A or the ejection brings the team below 9 players.
Click to expand...
Illegal and non-approved are not the same
 
EAJuggalo

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
An illegal bat is defined as any bat that does not meet the requirement/specifications of Rule 2, Sec. 2.
Rule 2, Sec. 2, Part C, Subsection 1 states:
1. Bats will be legal for USSSA sanctioned play only if the bat is manufactured
by an approved USSSA bat manufacturer on the USSSA approved bat
manufacturer list (kept by USSSA and published and made available by means
including, but not limited to, the USSSA website) and has the new USSSA
mark (kept by USSSA and published and made available by means including,
but not limited to, the USSSA website) on the taper of the bat. Wood bats made
on the approved USSSA bat manufacturer list shall be legal without regard to
this section E.2.
So any bat that is non-approved is Illegal. Nowhere is Non-Approved in the rulebook.
 
AUsoftball

AUsoftball

Supreme Commander of All
Lots of discussion, thanks for all the information. Here is the update: I have spoken with both the regional director of the USSSA, and he has provided in writing that the bat was not sanctioned for USSSA play. I also was able to provide a copy of the ASA banned bat list, with a email from one of the directors of ASA that the bat was not approved for ASA play as well. Third, after a great deal of discussion, I was able to get Miken to provide an email stating that they never produced a Miken Ultra II bat with two ASA stamps. They did state that one time the original Miken Ultra II carried a 2000 ASA stamp, but when the ASA went to the new 2004 ASA stamp, the bat did not pass the bat speed test, thus no 2004 ASA stamp. They also confirmed that if the bat used carried two ASA stamps (2000 & 2004) then it was highly likely that the bat had been modified. All of this information was sent to our team captain, who then presented it to the league director. The director is currently deciding on the next course of action. Many thanks to the folks at ASA, USSSA, and Miken for helping to address this topic, as the issue of safety was the biggest priority here, it is senseless from someone to get hurt from an illegal/altered bat.
 
SammyJaxxx

SammyJaxxx

Starting Player
there is definitely something fishy about that bat.
that bat is sick. There plenty out there being swung that have been repainted, re-stickered etc.
 
R

RNRPLZ

Member
AUsoftball said:
Good Evening,

I would like your feedback as we played a championship game this evening and the other team was found to be using an Mike Ultra II, the Ultra II they carried had the 2000 & 2004 ASA certification stamp. As a pitcher, my biggest concern is my safety, as a season Ultra II bat can produce serious velocity, and could cause a major injury to a player/pitcher. I have looked for an approved USSSA bat list, and cant find anything, and the Ultra II does not carry the required USSSA certification mark.....therefore is it legal for USSSA play?

I know there is no issue with using an ASA bat for USSSA play, but since the Ultra II is banned for ASA play regardless of certification stamps, and since the bat does not carry a USSSA stamp, where does it fall?

Your feedback is greatly appreciated

Jeff
Click to expand...
What I see here clearly that ASA/USA Softball does an excellent job st keeping banned bats list current...USA/ASA All the way
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top