ASA Out for chopping down?!?

[Brewzer]

We picked up a kid to play for us in a local tourney this last weekend. Kid had some serious wheels but wasn't the best hitter. So we told him to just chop down on the ball and try to beat it out. He was able to do this a few times. Every time he would take a full swing and just chop down. The last time the umprie told him that he would have no choice but to call him out if he chopped down on the ball again. I was like WTF?!? umpire sucked balls anyone and I knew this was some BS. Can anyone point to a rule about this? The ump tried to tell us it was in the rulebook. (Never once did he just judy it, he always swung hard, he just swung straight down pretty much)

 

[eddieq]

Chopping the ball in ASA slowpitch is an out. It's in the rulebook. One of the other guys who has it handy can probably quote it. I'm sure it's Rule 7 somewhere

 

[AmmoDawg]

I umpired two years ago (ASA) and I don't have the new rule book, but back then you had to break the wrists on a swing for it to be considered a swing...

 

[AH23]

You can't intentionally chop the ball down into the ground. It's an out.

 

[USSSA]

intentionally chopping down at the ball is a out, this is the judgement of the umpire

if the batter is obviously trying to drill the ball into the ground is what the umpire is looking for

 

[VF500Racer]

Just came up last USSSA tourny, it's an out depending on the ump...
Quite a few guys were driving toward my ankles 2 weekends ago
and the ump mentioned something and they stopped.

In ASA, it's definitely an auto out IF the ump enforces it.

 

[USSSA]

We picked up a kid to play for us in a local tourney this last weekend. Kid had some serious wheels but wasn't the best hitter. So we told him to just chop down on the ball and try to beat it out. He was able to do this a few times. Every time he would take a full swing and just chop down. The last time the umprie told him that he would have no choice but to call him out if he chopped down on the ball again. I was like WTF?!? umpire sucked balls anyone and I knew this was some BS. Can anyone point to a rule about this? The ump tried to tell us it was in the rulebook. (Never once did he just judy it, he always swung hard, he just swung straight down pretty much)

read the definitions section of the rule book, if you only know one rules section, this is the most important rule


CHOPPED BALL is a batted ball that the batter strikes downward so that it hits the ground
within the infield, with a deliberate attempt and downward chopping motion with the bat.

 

[thevipofdbz]

chopping is swinging STRAIGHT DOWN like an Axe. if you have any forward angle on the swing it is NOT chopping. That what i was taught in the ASA Umpire class.

ALSO A bunt is when you LET the ball hit the bat. If you have any swinging type motion it is NOT A BUNT, broke wrist do not matter. That is what I was taught and we had some guy from the top of asa teaching these classes.

 

[USSSA]

chopping is swinging STRAIGHT DOWN like an Axe. if you have any forward angle on the swing it is NOT chopping. That what i was taught in the ASA Umpire class.

ALSO A bunt is when you LET the ball hit the bat. If you have any swinging type motion it is NOT A BUNT, broke wrist do not matter. That is what I was taught and we had some guy from the top of asa teaching these classes.

does pollard still teach umpiring

 

[riotact]

Actually, the umpire was more concerned about him swinging half speed than chopping down on the ball. He was chopping down on the ball, but cutting it over the infielders head. What you have to master is a level swing where you hit the ball on the taper

 

[BretMan]

I umpired two years ago (ASA) and I don't have the new rule book, but back then you had to break the wrists on a swing for it to be considered a swing...

This is a false statement (either two years ago or today).

It sounds like you are confusing the often confused advice in the Rules Supplement about checked swings. Breaking the wrists is one of the guidelines offered to an umpire that he might use to help him determine if the batter has offered at a pitch or not. It is NOT a requirement of the rules that defines a swing.

The ASA definition of a "Chopped Ball" is given under Rule 1. It is "when the batter strikes downward with a chopping motion of the bat".

The rule that covers this is 7-6-H, which states that the batter is out if he "bunts or chops the ball".

So what does a chopped ball look like? The above analogy about swinging downward, like chopping wood or swinging an axe, is a good one. Ultimatetly, whether or not a ball was "chopped" is at the discretion and judgment of the umpire. It can be kind of a grey area. As a rule of thumb, you have to decide if the batter swung more "downward" than "forward".

Actually, the umpire was more concerned about him swinging half speed than chopping down on the ball. He was chopping down on the ball, but cutting it over the infielders head.

Then he was probably concerned with something that he shouldn't be concerned about! The rules to not address or dictate the the speed with with the batter swings the bat. If these batted balls were landing past the infielders, it's probably safe to say they were neither bunted or chopped.

 

[p17]

a few weeks ago in my unlimited arc league, a guy on the other team tried to call me out for this. i had no choice but to swing with a downward plane with two strikes and a 30' tall pitch. i'm not gonna pop out weakly.

he was telling me he has been an ASA umpire for 30 years and that it is always an automatic out. i was trying to tell him that it is up to the umpire's judgment whether i was trying to drive the ball into the ground or not, but he wasn't having any of it.

oh yeah, result of my swing? a line drive that i cut right up the middle

 

[Brewzer]

He told him if he chopped down on the ball he would have to call him out, I heard the ump say that much myself. He may have gone on to further question the swing speed but while bhis speed was not fast, it wasn't slow enough for anyone to nbe concerned about. I guess it is a judgement call though so not much you can do about it. He was nice enough to warn him first. It wasn't like he was swinging an axe trying to chop. It was an obvious attempt to hit down on the ball on the ground, but like riot said he did hit a few into the OF. I think more than anything he just looked akward doing it because I don't think he has done it much before that.

 

[bb666b77]

what would they say to the choppers that are looking to put back spin on the ball..to me chopping is a 12-6 motion on the clock,maybe a 1-7 swing.but anything else to me would be GTG.

 

[NCASAUmp]

what would they say to the choppers that are looking to put back spin on the ball..to me chopping is a 12-6 motion on the clock,maybe a 1-7 swing.but anything else to me would be GTG.

If they're just trying to cut the ball and give it spin so that it carries over the fence, that's fine. If they're giving the ol' "tomahawk chop" because it's a high pitch, that's fine, too.

If they're trying to chop the ball down to give it such a high bounce that the fielders never have a prayer at getting the ball before the batter-runner's on first, then that gets the call.

 

[bb666b77]

If they're just trying to cut the ball and give it spin so that it carries over the fence, that's fine. If they're giving the ol' "tomahawk chop" because it's a high pitch, that's fine, too.

If they're trying to chop the ball down to give it such a high bounce that the fielders never have a prayer at getting the ball before the batter-runner's on first, then that gets the call.

yup done them all except for the base hit one,not sure if i could bounce it hi enough for me to get to first.

 

[NCASAUmp]

yup done them all except for the base hit one,not sure if i could bounce it hi enough for me to get to first.

Maybe if you played on the moon, you might have a chance...

 

[irishmafia]

I umpired two years ago (ASA) and I don't have the new rule book, but back then you had to break the wrists on a swing for it to be considered a swing...

Bull****. Someone taught you wrong.

 

[thevipofdbz]

i think he was there

does pollard still teach umpiring

Henry Pollard, charles moss, and a few others. help teach the classes and clinics

 

[mazzamouth]

I umpired two years ago (ASA) and I don't have the new rule book, but back then you had to break the wrists on a swing for it to be considered a swing...

I tell you what, you find it in the rule book about breaking your wrist and I will buy you a dinner..... I'll wait for it..





you won't find it no where.... you can not deliberately swing down on the ball into the ground to take advantage of the defense..

USSSA rule 3.
CHOPPED BALL is a batted ball that the batter strikes downward so that it hits the ground
within the infield, with a deliberate attempt and downward chopping motion with the bat

 

[irishmafia]

Henry Pollard, charles moss, and a few others. help teach the classes and clinics

Henry is no longer as active as before since he became a commissioner though I have been to national and international schools with Henry. I stll listen to anything he has to offer me.

Charlie is his UIC and addresses clinics. A little soft spoken, but Charlie knows of what he speaks.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Henry is no longer as active as before since he became a commissioner though I have been to national and international schools with Henry. I stll listen to anything he has to offer me.

Charlie is his UIC and addresses clinics. A little soft spoken, but Charlie knows of what he speaks.

A little? I sat front row and still had to lean forward to hear him.

But your assessment of Charlie is spot on. He's a wonderful guy, has my utmost respect, and I'll call for him any day.

 

[jk22]

it is a judgement call/rule..personally, i dont agree with it. if that is how you know how to get on base, than so be it...tell your 3bagger to play in.

 

[chiefgator]

it is a judgement call/rule..personally, i dont agree with it. if that is how you know how to get on base, than so be it...tell your 3bagger to play in.

The rule was put in place to stop the "Baltimore Chop". There is no defense to it, no matter how closly your 3B plays. If the ground is hard and you drive the ball into the ground, the fielders have to wait for it to come down before they can make a play.

In all my years on the diamond, I have only seen it a few times.

 

[coolluvr4u1976]

I've only seen 1 guy use the " chop " swing, and the umpire called him out on it........ and it was a deliberate " chop " swing cuz the ball bounced a good 10ft in the air, right between the pitcher and catcher......

only issue, was next game same umpire, my brother comes upto bat, and had a " cut " swing before that became big on how you drive the ball. so here my brother is, all 5'7 of him lol and he gets a pitch and swings and smokes the ball right at the 3rdbaseman on a one hopper that hits about 10feet infront of the guy and comes up chest high on the bounce..... umpire calls him out for chopping lol..... thats the only two times i've seen it called......

 

[irishmafia]

Speaking ASA.

It should be noted that the ASA interpretation of a "chop" is not just swinging down, but literally taking the bat overhead and bringing it straight down as if chopping/splitting wood on the ground.

 

[Brewzer]

Our guy was nowhere close to chopping straight down on the ball as it seems he would have to be in order for him to be called out. Not one time did any ball he hit take a hop over a couple feet high at the most. He was just trying to put the ball in play in the IF and use his wheels.