Overlap grip vs. conventional (again)

[TWmccoy]

I know I've discussed this topic on here at length over the years, but now it's time to talk about grip again.

I used the overlap grip most of this year, both full overlap and 2 finger. I hit pretty well, but I felt like I was mis hitting too many balls. Too many popups and I topped the ball (knucklers) way too often. This winter the weather's been decent, and I've been hitting a lot of BP. I've been working with a pretty standard grip lately. 2 fingers dropped on the bottom hand, and the top hand normal.

The results have been a little surprising. After using the overlap grip steadily for 10 years, I always felt like it provided extra whip, batted ball speed, and distance. This winter's BP has proven otherwise. Using a fairly standard grip, I'm seeing every bit of the distance I'd get with the overlap grip.

So, what's the difference? The quality with which the ball is being struck. With an overlap grip, I can hit the ball very hard, but the swing itself is sloppy. I top a lot of balls and tend to have timing problems. With a standard grip I feel like the top hand is making a ton of difference in bat control. I stay back on the ball better, and am able to wait longer before swinging. With an overlap grip I never felt like I was able to let the ball get deep enough before swinging. I was making contact too far out in front. With a standard grip I can pretty much choose when I want the snap to occur. With an overlap grip the bat just comes around on its own, and not in a very controlled motion.

Swinging early and contacting the ball too far out in front turned out to be my biggest problem. It led to topping the ball or cleaving weakly under it.

Switching back to a conventional grip felt weird at first. It felt like the top hand wanted to dominate everything since that hand wasn't used to doing a whole lot before. I'm liking the results. My last few BPs have been probably my best of the year. I'm mis hitting a lot less balls, and I'm generating backspin much easier than before.

The main things I've changed lately are:

Going back to a standard grip. No overlap on top hand.
Slightly more uppercut. Uppercutting never worked for me with an overlap grip, but I do fine with a standard grip.
Hitting the ball later (not as far out in front). This was probably the biggest difference maker. Letting the ball get deeper allows me to get inside it better, and that creates backspin and distance.

I SWORE by the overlap grip for like 10 years. I'm well aware of the power capabilities there. That said, I'm hitting the ball every bit as hard/far right now with a standard grip.... and I'm doing it far more often/reliably than I did before.

I guess I just reached the point where I'd rather have more bat control. The overlap grip felt sloppy at times, and I was missing too many balls.

 

[tonys1]

FINALLY

 

[jbo911]

Same for me last year. I was never full overlap, but i hurt my hands last spring (pre-covid) and switched my top hand just for that bp. I was hitting so much more solidly i just left it all year. I'm playing less, and i felt it helped my consistency a lot.

 

[tonys1]

People will hold a bat with 3 fingers for "leverage", but think that 27+ oz or endloaded bats are too heavy.

 

[TWmccoy]

Same for me last year. I was never full overlap, but i hurt my hands last spring (pre-covid) and switched my top hand just for that bp. I was hitting so much more solidly i just left it all year. I'm playing less, and i felt it helped my consistency a lot.

I was always so worried about losing distance with the conventional grip. Thing is, lately I'm not. If anything I'm hitting the ball further with a conventional grip than I do with the overlap.

I clubbed a couple balls about 415' last week with the conventional grip. Many more in the 380' range. I obviously can do that distance using the overlap grip, but not nearly as consistently. The culprit is lack of backspin.

I feel like the top hand is actually providing some distance. The whip is coming later. Lots of times with the overlap grip I felt like I was releasing the top hand too early and not getting enough push.

IDK, the conventional grip just feels so much cleaner. I don't feel like I'm guessing as much, and I've been mis hitting the ball so much less. Way less casting/lunging as well. I'm hitting the ball deeper in the zone, and I'm not seeing any more of those hooking, sidespin shots.

 

[dunkky]

Maybe the timing is the key here. with full overlap, you really have to time it perfectly to get that full whip effect. With conventional, even you a bit late, you still have top hand to generate some force unlike full overlap. The reason why partial might the happy medium.

 

[Redsfan]

I never understood the infatuation with the overlap. I tried it a few times in practice. Never felt good. Bat felt less secure in my hands. You might get more whip effect from it but I really didn't notice it. Control is much more important to me than minimal distance gains. Also I feel having a nice solid grip on the bat lets the barrel flex and do it's job better.

On a side note, TW if you hit it that far I have no idea why you would ever worry about distance.

 

[tonys1]

Wait so a quarter inch of leverage isn't going to help me hit 500 foot bombs???

 

[Redsfan]

No. Only a 24 ounce bat held by 2 fingers can do that. White compression tights under you shorts will get you 5 more feet.

 

[dunkky]

u know as strong as havey is, even he applies some type of overlap. In fact, you will see more people with a variety of overlap than conventional in the conference level. Whether pinky drop or pinky overlap, etc. It comes down to what works best for each player.

 

[tonys1]

hahahahahaha 24oz

gtfo bro, im in the lumber club, real men swing 25oz.

go lift some weights and drink some milk

 

[tonys1]

Dunky:

His bat control > your bat control
The guy is a freaking tank and has huge hands. You're complaining that 27oz is too heavy - his craps are probably 27oz. The things he does won't necessarily work for you.

He's a former MLB draft pick, and I've seen guys who didn't play that high level of ball and they can absolutely crush softballs at will. Guys like that and Harvey can smash with any bat using any grip.

I know a former D1 baseball player who decided to come for BP one day, he was hitting 400+ foot shots with 0 softball swing stupidities.

One of my best players was tired of smoking us in BP derbies, he converted to hitting right-handed to keep things interesting and within a few weeks was still beating us on most nights. Another elite player who played very high level ball and who never swung right handed before.

And I'm not saying you suck, that me and my friends are better than you or anyone, but the clown **** looks ridiculous and doesn't work as well as proper form which can take a long time to master.

People get paid millions of dollars to swing balls, we should be learning proper basics from them.

 

[BSBR]

Not sure why people have to be so insulting on here. Not sure what pleasure people get out of being assholes to strangers.. Seriously, isn't the whole point of a forum to have multiple opinions and viewpoints, and have good discussions?

I also have played/play with some former D1 and 2 athletes, and an MLB draft pick, and i dont think they would all agree on a single way being right. I personally agree with the OP, I have tried most versions of the overlap, and I always go back to mostly traditional with pinky overlapping the nob. a true overlap has always felt sloppy for me, and I have never generated much more batspeed. The sacrifice in control and good contact never have been worth it. Hopefully 2021 gives us better opportunities to test out which grips work for us

 

[jbo911]

First of all, most players on the conference don't seem to overlap add much as they used to. Look at old videos versus new. I think the bats are the main factor there.

My hands aren't large, and i gained about 3" from just dropping a pinky and the last two fingers of my top hand. That is noticeable, and yes, I've swung a 32" bat before so I've felt the opposite as well.

 

[TWmccoy]

OK. Just to make one thing clear, I'm not really looking to start arguments over whether the overlap grip works or not. IMO, the overlap grip works fine. Recently I've put some time and reps in with the conventional grip and I feel like it just works better. What works for me might not work for everyone else.

I used the overlap grip for 10 years and had lots of success. I just feel that anymore I can't overlook the fact that I was mis hitting too many balls and wasting ABs. No matter how often I hit BP with the overlap grip I always felt some "slop". I never had outstanding bat control with it. It's time to make a change, and going into next year I'm going to use the conventional grip. Just in BP lately I've made such noticeable improvements in timing and contact.

Simply put, the conventional grip produces cleaner, more consistent results for me than the overlap grip ever did.

I also agree that not as many conference guys use the overlap. As Jbo said, the bats could be a factor. You simply don't NEED to overlap when you're swinging a 26 oz wonder stick.

 

[baseman]

I have swung 30 oz bats with full overlap with great success. I have gotten stronger over the years and switched to a modified overlap. Bottom hand drop two and middle finger over the knob with the top hand conventional and keep the extra whip with the control of the top hand. It is very hard to find 30s now and even 28s are hard to find with the new stamps. I've had to adjust to get the most from the bat.

 

[dunkky]

Dunky:

His bat control > your bat control
The guy is a freaking tank and has huge hands. You're complaining that 27oz is too heavy - his craps are probably 27oz. The things he does won't necessarily work for you.

He's a former MLB draft pick, and I've seen guys who didn't play that high level of ball and they can absolutely crush softballs at will. Guys like that and Harvey can smash with any bat using any grip.

I know a former D1 baseball player who decided to come for BP one day, he was hitting 400+ foot shots with 0 softball swing stupidities.

One of my best players was tired of smoking us in BP derbies, he converted to hitting right-handed to keep things interesting and within a few weeks was still beating us on most nights. Another elite player who played very high level ball and who never swung right handed before.

And I'm not saying you suck, that me and my friends are better than you or anyone, but the clown **** looks ridiculous and doesn't work as well as proper form which can take a long time to master.

People get paid millions of dollars to swing balls, we should be learning proper basics from them.

you are missing the whole point. harvey doesn't need extra leverage. harvey doesn't give a damn about what grip is needed for more distance. Yet, he is doing it. You think Helmer needs it? Kirby? branch? many others? you wanna tell him that overlap sucks cuz mlb guys are not doing it? I am simply stating that it's not SBF dudes place to judge what others are comfortable with. If it's not for you, good, if it's not working for tw good. but don't come out and saying you can never understand why others are doing it as if it's a stupid thing to do. Everyone has a different reason and different comfort level, it has nothing to do with their skill level. For me, it's easy on my right elbow since top hand don't do much. Also i like the way it snaps by itself. I don't do it to launch 350 shot. Also, none of my statements above are encouraging one over the other. It's ultimately what's comfortable for you is my whole point.

My strength is not the same, I am 18lb lighter. you need to listen to your body. When i was stronger, i had no issue with 27 full oz endload, reason why i loved xxl and dc41, Omega. Not anymore. 26 works best now. grip type is irrelevant.

 

[Normy]

Combat.

 

[tonys1]

you are missing the whole point. harvey doesn't need extra leverage. harvey doesn't give a damn about what grip is needed for more distance. Yet, he is doing it. You think Helmer needs it? Kirby? branch? many others? you wanna tell him that overlap sucks cuz mlb guys are not doing it? I am simply stating that it's not SBF dudes place to judge what others are comfortable with. If it's not for you, good, if it's not working for tw good. but don't come out and saying you can never understand why others are doing it as if it's a stupid thing to do. Everyone has a different reason and different comfort level, it has nothing to do with their skill level. For me, it's easy on my right elbow since top hand don't do much. Also i like the way it snaps by itself. I don't do it to launch 350 shot. Also, none of my statements above are encouraging one over the other. It's ultimately what's comfortable for you is my whole point.

My strength is not the same, I am 18lb lighter. you need to listen to your body. When i was stronger, i had no issue with 27 full oz endload, reason why i loved xxl and dc41, Omega. Not anymore. 26 works best now. grip type is irrelevant.

Actually, I don't think I'm missing the point. Dude is talking about ditching the overlap grip after 10 years and I shared my thoughts on it. You're talking about anecdotes, what others are doing and sharing pictures of your idols, but not much else. I shouldn't be doing anything just because Helmer and Harvey are doing it. I won't knock it until I try it, and after trying it, it's a stupidity in my opinion.

 

[hitless45]

Combat.

24-25oz ?!?!

 

[TWmccoy]

I have swung 30 oz bats with full overlap with great success. I have gotten stronger over the years and switched to a modified overlap. Bottom hand drop two and middle finger over the knob with the top hand conventional and keep the extra whip with the control of the top hand. It is very hard to find 30s now and even 28s are hard to find with the new stamps. I've had to adjust to get the most from the bat.

This is where I'm at now. Drop 2 fingers on the bottom hand, and keep the top hand normal. MUCH better bat control than I had before.

I also agree that swinging heavier bats becomes easier when you're using the top hand more.

 

[ShortYellowBus]

I swing 30oz bats and I go full overlap. I saw Helmer do it at a high level, and now he’s got his name on everything ASA, USSSA and now even Senior.

It’s a preference and discussion of what’s better for your swing is rather moot.

I got a story. I hit balls with a former MLB’er a few weeks back. Let’s call him Ryan.

The field goes to 370ish in left and 430 in center, but it’s pretty much a football field so right field is 220’. I said no hitting to right field.

Ryan blasted consecutive 350’ shots to left field, but his swing was all messed up. He wasn’t preloading before his swing and wasn’t balanced through contact. It was strange.

After twenty pitches, he had enough. I asked him why his timing was so good but his swing was such trash. He laughed.

It turns out, he’s actually a lefty.

I didn’t even consider that.

 

[arther itis]

I swing 30oz bats and I go full overlap. I saw Helmer do it at a high level, and now he’s got his name on everything ASA, USSSA and now even Senior.

It’s a preference and discussion of what’s better for your swing is rather moot.

I got a story. I hit balls with a former MLB’er a few weeks back. Let’s call him Ryan.

The field goes to 370ish in left and 430 in center, but it’s pretty much a football field so right field is 220’. I said no hitting to right field.

Ryan blasted consecutive 350’ shots to left field, but his swing was all messed up. He wasn’t preloading before his swing and wasn’t balanced through contact. It was strange.

After twenty pitches, he had enough. I asked him why his timing was so good but his swing was such trash. He laughed.

It turns out, he’s actually a lefty.

I didn’t even consider that.

Ryan Klesko?

 

[tonys1]

Ryan Howard?

 

[dunkky]

Actually, I don't think I'm missing the point. Dude is talking about ditching the overlap grip after 10 years and I shared my thoughts on it. You're talking about anecdotes, what others are doing and sharing pictures of your idols, but not much else. I shouldn't be doing anything just because Helmer and Harvey are doing it. I won't knock it until I try it, and after trying it, it's a stupidity in my opinion.

you are missing the point again. I post Ryan Harvey's grip to make my point. He doesn't need an inch of leverage to hit a long ball. It's what's working and comfortable for him. So is Helmer and others. Skillset is irrelevant. By that logic, no one here should mimic the technic of the players playing at the highest level. I know a lot guys in our league/tournament who use modified overlap grip very effectively. So, it's not a conference thing. It's a softball thing.

TW said, he's been very successful last 10 years with a overlap. Maybe that's what worked the best back then. Now maybe he is older, maybe he's using top hand more effectively than before. There could be multiple reasons. who knows what. Bottom line is that's what was comfortable back then, now is different. There's no right or wrong. I hope this is clear enough.

 

[arther itis]

Ron Howard?

 

[Hiltz]

you are missing the whole point. harvey doesn't need extra leverage. harvey doesn't give a damn about what grip is needed for more distance. Yet, he is doing it. You think Helmer needs it? Kirby? branch? many others? you wanna tell him that overlap sucks cuz mlb guys are not doing it?

Those guys are doing it so they can mis-hit balls and still put them over the scoreboard at Disney.

Rec guys do it so they can hit a HR once in awhile and bat .300.

 

[Redsfan]

Alot of pros are influenced by others just as much as a rec player is. If they see someone have success doing something they will follow. Does Harvey need to do it to hit one 450 ft? No. At their level every small change will help. Lift a weigh a couple times a week and you can get small distance gains too and you won't lose your bat control by doing some crazy ass grip on your bat.

 

[jhitman]

I know I've discussed this topic on here at length over the years, but now it's time to talk about grip again.

I used the overlap grip most of this year, both full overlap and 2 finger. I hit pretty well, but I felt like I was mis hitting too many balls. Too many popups and I topped the ball (knucklers) way too often. This winter the weather's been decent, and I've been hitting a lot of BP. I've been working with a pretty standard grip lately. 2 fingers dropped on the bottom hand, and the top hand normal.

The results have been a little surprising. After using the overlap grip steadily for 10 years, I always felt like it provided extra whip, batted ball speed, and distance. This winter's BP has proven otherwise. Using a fairly standard grip, I'm seeing every bit of the distance I'd get with the overlap grip.

So, what's the difference? The quality with which the ball is being struck. With an overlap grip, I can hit the ball very hard, but the swing itself is sloppy. I top a lot of balls and tend to have timing problems. With a standard grip I feel like the top hand is making a ton of difference in bat control. I stay back on the ball better, and am able to wait longer before swinging. With an overlap grip I never felt like I was able to let the ball get deep enough before swinging. I was making contact too far out in front. With a standard grip I can pretty much choose when I want the snap to occur. With an overlap grip the bat just comes around on its own, and not in a very controlled motion.

Swinging early and contacting the ball too far out in front turned out to be my biggest problem. It led to topping the ball or cleaving weakly under it.

Switching back to a conventional grip felt weird at first. It felt like the top hand wanted to dominate everything since that hand wasn't used to doing a whole lot before. I'm liking the results. My last few BPs have been probably my best of the year. I'm mis hitting a lot less balls, and I'm generating backspin much easier than before.

The main things I've changed lately are:

Going back to a standard grip. No overlap on top hand.
Slightly more uppercut. Uppercutting never worked for me with an overlap grip, but I do fine with a standard grip.
Hitting the ball later (not as far out in front). This was probably the biggest difference maker. Letting the ball get deeper allows me to get inside it better, and that creates backspin and distance.

I SWORE by the overlap grip for like 10 years. I'm well aware of the power capabilities there. That said, I'm hitting the ball every bit as hard/far right now with a standard grip.... and I'm doing it far more often/reliably than I did before.

I guess I just reached the point where I'd rather have more bat control. The overlap grip felt sloppy at times, and I was missing too many balls.

Since you are still dropping 2 fingers off the bottom of the bat you are still getting the bat whip like an overlap grip would provide. My guess is that you have your whole top hand on the bat you get a better feel and are more consistent. Whatever works for you is what you should do. I recently switched back to my interlocking overlap grip. I seem to get better bat control and consistency with it than the regular overlap.

 

[D-ROCK13]

A simple pinky drop on the bottom hand has always worked the best for me, but not everyone is the same. Try the overlap and love it or hate it, but remember we are all different and consistency will always be your #1 ally