USSSA Runner caught off the bag during a pitch...

[djcs1204]

Does contact have to be made for a baserunner to be out if a pitch is thrown and they are not on the bag?

 

[ichiromoco]

Nope. Dead Ball and Runner is out.

 

[NCASAUmp]

What were the circumstances? Were they returning to the base after being legitimately off the base (for example, after a foul ball)?

 

[djcs1204]

Well, the runner was coming off of the bag after each pitch. The ball would land, he would come off about 4that steps and then the next pitch was thrown. He would get back to the bag just barely afyer the ball was released.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Well, the runner was coming off of the bag after each pitch. The ball would land, he would come off about 4that steps and then the next pitch was thrown. He would get back to the bag just barely afyer the ball was released.

He can come off the base once the pitch hits the ground, is batted, or reaches/passes home plate. I'd hold up the next pitch until he's back on the base, but I'd probably tell his coach to get this knucklehead's mind in the game. He's holding things up.

 

[EAJuggalo]

I'd hold up play for him once or twice, but if the runner is consistently holding up the game by not getting back where they are supposed to be I'll call a strike on the batter. Once that happens teams usually quit screwing around.

 

[djcs1204]

I know that in ISA the runner is out if he isn't on the bag when the pitch is thrown. Didn't know if the rule was the same here.

 

[Taprootgft]

He can come off the base once the pitch hits the ground, is batted, or reaches/passes home plate. I'd hold up the next pitch until he's back on the base, but I'd probably tell his coach to get this knucklehead's mind in the game. He's holding things up.

Would you change your position if you had a d-bag quick pitcher? that catches and immediately throws?

Also change the situation to one I'm surprisingly routinely in because umps out here apparently just don't pay attention, not saying you guys are like this but in all the leagues I've ever played in this one just gets folks from wherever. I'd say 9 times out of 10, on a ground ball to the left side I'm beating it out to first, and running balls to the wall to ensure same, and I don't know about most folks but I don't stop on a dime running through the bag, so I'll be decently down the line and jogging back to the bag still and the pitcher is in the process of throwing the next pitch. Would you kill the pitch or play on?

 

[ichiromoco]

If the runner is off the bag before the pitch gets to the plate and the umpire sees it it will be a dead ball runner is OUT. If he leaves for example when the batter looks like he is going to swing he can usually get away with it but there is NO way he would not be back at the bag before the pitcher was ready to make another pitch.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Would you change your position if you had a d-bag quick pitcher? that catches and immediately throws?

Not an issue. Can't have a pitch when I've got the stop sign up.

Also change the situation to one I'm surprisingly routinely in because umps out here apparently just don't pay attention, not saying you guys are like this but in all the leagues I've ever played in this one just gets folks from wherever. I'd say 9 times out of 10, on a ground ball to the left side I'm beating it out to first, and running balls to the wall to ensure same, and I don't know about most folks but I don't stop on a dime running through the bag, so I'll be decently down the line and jogging back to the bag still and the pitcher is in the process of throwing the next pitch. Would you kill the pitch or play on?

Same thing as above.

I don't think it's so much an issue of the umpires not paying attention so much as it is that they're assuming that either A) the batter will take the first pitch, B) it's the runner's fault for not hustling back to 1st base, thus putting themselves at a disadvantage, or C) not wanting to properly deal with the issue (survival mode).

 

[NCASAUmp]

If the runner is off the bag before the pitch gets to the plate and the umpire sees it it will be a dead ball runner is OUT. If he leaves for example when the batter looks like he is going to swing he can usually get away with it but there is NO way he would not be back at the bag before the pitcher was ready to make another pitch.

Not true.

USSSA 8-12: Base runners are not out:
B. When a base runner is required to return to a base and is not given sufficient time to return.

When "time" is called, runners must stop and return to their bases. If the batter-runner overruns first base and is returning, I'll hold up the pitch until he (and any other runners) return to their base(s).

 

[djcs1204]

Not true.



When "time" is called, runners must stop and return to their bases. If the batter-runner overruns first base and is returning, I'll hold up the pitch until he (and any other runners) return to their base(s).

All that has to be done for me to drop the stop sign if the batter hasn't asked for time, is for the pitcher to present the ball.

 

[ichiromoco]

Not true.


When "time" is called, runners must stop and return to their bases. If the batter-runner overruns first base and is returning, I'll hold up the pitch until he (and any other runners) return to their base(s).

This rule^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is for after a ball has been hit. ie. batter/runner or base runners after a foul ball. That is not the scenario provided by the OP. The OP clearly states the runner is off the bag after the pitch and there is no contact ie. foul ball. You may be an umpire but your reading is suspect. That is clearly a dead ball runner is OUT situation.

 

[NCASAUmp]

This rule^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is for after a ball has been hit. ie. batter/runner or base runners after a foul ball. That is not the scenario provided by the OP. You may be an umpire but your reading is suspect.

Not correct.

Nowhere does it mention that the ball must be hit.

The runner was legitimately off of his base, and he should be given sufficient time to return.

Now, if he keeps delaying the game like this, I may call the out later, but only after I tell his coach to have him knock it off.

 

[ichiromoco]

Not correct.

Nowhere does it mention that the ball must be hit.

The runner was legitimately off of his base, and he should be given sufficient time to return.

Now, if he keeps delaying the game like this, I may call the out later, but only after I tell his coach to have him knock it off.

WHen have you seen a runner so far off the bag on a take pitch that he cannot return in the time the catcher throws back to the pitcher? He cant lead, he's not supposed to leave the bag until there is contact, correct? If the batter does not swing the runner usually has only taken one step.

 

[NCASAUmp]

WHen have you seen a runner so far off the bag on a take pitch that he cannot return in the time the catcher throws back to the pitcher? He cant lead, he's not supposed to leave the bag until there is contact, correct? If the batter does not swing the runner usually has only taken one step.

Hey, I'm not saying he's not stupid, but since when is that illegal? I've seen plenty of unnecessary, dumb tactics in Slow Pitch, but that doesn't make them illegal, nor does it mean they should automatically be called out for it. If I called an out for every "stupid move" I saw on the field, I'd have some very quick games.

And no, he's not tied to the base until there is contact. That's just a myth.

 

[ichiromoco]

And no, he's not tied to the base until there is contact. That's just a myth.

So allow me to learn here. I Know you must be on the base at the time the pitch is thrown. When by rule can a baserunner leave the bag? I assumed it was on contact only? ASA Rule please.

 

[lamsw]

So allow me to learn here. I Know you must be on the base at the time the pitch is thrown. When by rule can a baserunner leave the bag? I assumed it was on contact only? ASA Rule please.

He already gave the answer in post 5:

He can come off the base once the pitch hits the ground, is batted, or reaches/passes home plate. I'd hold up the next pitch until he's back on the base, but I'd probably tell his coach to get this knucklehead's mind in the game. He's holding things up.

 

[NCASAUmp]

He already gave the answer in post 5:

And yet somehow my reading skills are called into question?

 

[EAJuggalo]

All that has to be done for me to drop the stop sign if the batter hasn't asked for time, is for the pitcher to present the ball.

This is incorrect, you should also be checking that all runner are at their bases, all fielders are in fair territory and giving the batter a reasonable amount of time to get set before declaring the play live, at which point the pitcher may present the ball and begin their pitch.

 

[tnacty]

This is incorrect, you should also be checking that all runner are at their bases, all fielders are in fair territory and giving the batter a reasonable amount of time to get set before declaring the play live, at which point the pitcher may present the ball and begin their pitch.

Exactly, there is no such thing in USSSA as a fairly delivered quick pitch for an umpire doing his job. Four things have to happen for it to be fairly delivered right? Pitcher, catcher, umpire and batter have to be ready. Part of you being ready as an umpire is that you've checked that the baserunners are where they should be and that your partner is ready before you say play.

Related subject that came up in this thread.....I love how teams freak out here thinking they have to call time every time they step out of the box. You HAVE time after every pitch and a good umpire has his hand up after every pitch before saying 'play'. Probably the biggest misnomer in USSSA and it's perpetuated by umpires in certain states who allow things like the quick pitch.

Tangential....I allow 'verbals' in our state if the batter wants a little extra time to get set....my favorite umpire moment all time happened in New Mexico about 15 years ago when I asked him for a 'verbal' he said "I'll give you a verbal, get in the f***ing box". I see him all the time when I go down to help run the Whole Enchilada and we still laugh about it.