ASA SCMAF/ASA Runner misses 1st base...

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Compas1

Star Player
Sunday playing in CoEd bat tourney...

Male batter hits a ground ball to the shortstop, runner busts his ass down the line but crossing the bag the runner clearly never touched the bag on a bang bang play... Ump calls him safe.

Our pitcher calls it that the runner never touched the base... Ump still calls him safe and says we have to appeal the play. We were like what you think we yelling about? I get we did not officially appeal the play...

The ump says, "You must appeal before the runner gets back to the bag."

I was, "WTF is the point of my 1st baseman being on the bag then? He missed the bag my girl caught it, he should be out...?

His reply, "I can call him safe because he passed the bag before the ball got to the bag, but you have to appeal the play...?

What's the right call?
 
slick303

slick303

B(.)(.)BS
It sounds like he knew he messed up and was telling you how to correct it. I am pretty sure you don't have to appeal before he gets back to the bag.
 
sjury

sjury

The Old Man
Yes he was right and Yes you have to appeal before the runner returns to the base. You can step on the bag or tag the runner and vocalize your appeal before the runner returns to the bag.
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
Everything this umpire told you is correct.

Any runner passing a base is assumed to have touched it, up until it's properly appealed. At first base, if the runner missed the base, but beats the throw, he is safe pending an appeal. The appeal must be made before the runner comes back and touches first base. If it's not, then it's too late to do anything about it. The runner is safe and the play is over.
 
I

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
And because this thread is way to short for the standards of this board, let me add that a dead ball appeal is not available in this instance.

For that matter, if the umpire calls "time", an appeal is not possible.

Please understand, I am referring only to an appeal on a runner missing a base to which they return and stay, not an appeal on a base missed where the runner advances to the next base.
 
BigSam

BigSam

Addicted to Softballfans
If you can "punch the umpire in the mouth" before the runner gets back to the bag, the call is different.
 
J

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
sjury said:
Yes he was right and Yes you have to appeal before the runner returns to the base. You can step on the bag or tag the runner and vocalize your appeal before the runner returns to the bag.
Click to expand...

Then he wasn't right.

According to the post, the 1Bman stepped on the bag before the runner came back.....right?


Any runner passing a base is assumed to have touched it, up until it's properly appealed
Click to expand...

Does a proper appeal in this case have to be verbal? If so, do they have to say something other that "he missed the bag?



.
 
sjury

sjury

The Old Man
The runner is assumed safe when he passes over the base. The appeal has to be verbal, and before the runner returns to the bag.

The umpire called it right and applied the appeal correct as well.
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
This appeal does need to be obvious, and a good way to make it obvious is with a verbal appeal.

Reason: On these plays, where exactly is a first baseman going to be standing? With his foot on the base. Just standing there, same as he would on a routine play at first, doesn't make it clear to the umpire that the defense actually saw the base was missed.

If they're not sure the base was missed, and the umpire calls an out, then he's just kind of handing a free out to the defense without an appeal. The defense has to do something to let the umpire know what it is they are trying to appeal.
 
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cjangeloni1986

Addicted to Softballfans
In the OP's description of the play he states that it was a bang bang play. So when is it the player is considered passed the bag? Is it when the whole body crosses pass the back of the bag? If it was a bang bang play like the OP described then does the assumption that he touched first after passing the bag even apply considering the fact he was not passed the bag at the time the ball reached 1st?
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
For ASA softball, my understanding is that it's when the front foot lands on the ground past the base. Would have to research that further to be 100% sure, if it's even documented anywhere. The only reason I came up with that answer is that I asked my UIC this same question about 12 years ago and that's what he told me.

For various codes of baseball I've worked, it's when the trailing foot passes the base.
 
J

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
So, verbal "he missed the bag" before the runner returns. Got it. Thanks.



And, how the hell do you miss touching first base? :mod:
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
joncon said:
So, verbal "he missed the bag" before the runner returns.
Click to expand...

Plus, tagging the base or the runner.


joncon said:
And, how the hell do you miss touching first base? :mod:
Click to expand...

It's not all that common. I keep track of how many games I umpire each season. Career-wise, I'm around 1300 games. I've seen this play happen three times. Two times, the defense didn't see it and there was no appeal. Once, they appealed, but it was after the runner had returned to first base.

How does a runner miss any base? It's usually a case of their stride being off and they step right over it.
 
BigSam

BigSam

Addicted to Softballfans
The running bag adds a wrinkle. Because on a routine play the runner has to hit the orange bag, and for some reason this baffles players. I'd say in my league at the very least one runner per game hits all white instead of orange. Same appeal play applies.
 
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