Shaved Bats a thing of the past

NorCal5150

Rep for GS Sports
One other thing that just came to mind. AND AGAIN THIS IS MY OPINION. In Canseco's book he claimed that at the height of the steroid era approximately 80% of MLB was on steroids. Now could we agree that just about 80% of teams/players are swinging glass?? So here goes and again this is MY OPINION. If this is the case does this not mean that the majority of players are swinging a shaved bat? Here is my point and this may not sound right but does this not make it a level playing field? If everyone has access to them and all or a majority are using them does that not constitute a level playing field??

I have no idea what % of guys are swining them, but wouldnt be surprised if it was more than people think it is. It is something that will never forsure be known. All it takes is for someone to do a simple google search or ask around at any league or tourney to find a bat doctor.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
^^^^There was a thread on this board recently where I was taken the wrong way about going middle. It is part of the game and guys are iditos. IF I were to do it would be to pay a pitcher back BUT I WOULD NEVER DO IT AND ALWAYS TALK TEAMMATES DOWN FROM WANTING TO DO IT. I have bat control. Some people don't. The thread I am referring to was about apologizing to the pitcher. My thought was that I don't care if you apologize or not. It didn't bother me that you "accidentally" went middle. I hear guys apologize all the time. I hear what they have to say and never say a word back. I rarely say a word period. It's not that i'm being a jerk its that A)I just may have failed to make a play or B)I am trying to remember where the next batter went last AB.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
I have no idea what % of guys are swining them, but wouldnt be surprised if it was more than people think it is. It is something that will never forsure be known. All it takes is for someone to do a simple google search or ask around at any league or tourney to find a bat doctor.


You know I deleted that post because in reality I am not trying to start controversy like other people. I posted it and then deleted it because there is no way to properly express something you have typed. But it is my opinion. I have actually played with/against the Canseco's and I brought that point up to him and he thought it was valid. Not that his word means a lot but I thought he thought it was an interesting perspective.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
^^^^Trust me I know what the number is but my question is does it make it a level playing field? I understand the moral dilemma of swinging a shaved bat and I understand about getting a false sense of ability from using one and just because 80 or 90% of people are doing it does not make it right. But if you have 2 teams.....both have 12 guys batting.....10 of the guys, on both sides mind you, are swinging glass then that is a level playing field. Not within the rules but a level playing field none the less. Right??
 

chrometip78

The Hungarian Barbarian
There needs to be a Conseco like whistle blower in softball, somebody that had their name on a bat. Just come out and put all the dirty secrets on blast.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
^^^^Would that really help or accomplish anything? Canseco did it and people are still doing PED's and try/beating the system. Would the same thing happen in softball?? My guess is yes? Dudes in MLB and NFL are getting caught even though they stand to lose millions of dollars. 99% of softball players pay to play and yet they are trying to find a way to cheat.
 

chrometip78

The Hungarian Barbarian
^^^^Would that really help or accomplish anything? Canseco did it and people are still doing PED's and try/beating the system. Would the same thing happen in softball?? My guess is yes? Dudes in MLB and NFL are getting caught even though they stand to lose millions of dollars. 99% of softball players pay to play and yet they are trying to find a way to cheat.

I was just being facetious, wouldn't surprise me if the big boys were able to hit the way they do with clean or dirty bats and frankly I don't really care.
 

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
I have no idea what % of guys are swining them, but wouldnt be surprised if it was more than people think it is. It is something that will never forsure be known. All it takes is for someone to do a simple google search or ask around at any league or tourney to find a bat doctor.

JM once told me that he believed 75% of bats used in tourney play were altered in some way. Then again he also told me that as the state director is was not his job to keep people from cheating which is why he didn't test bats.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
I was just being facetious, wouldn't surprise me if the big boys were able to hit the way they do with clean or dirty bats and frankly I don't really care.

My bad. And I think you're probably right. Dam those guys can hit. Do dirty bats help them hit the long jacks? Maybe. Maybe it adds distance. But just like Bonds in his early days. He could play but the steroids made him just that much better. How good would he have been without them? No one will know. Just like PED'S dirty bats make a decent hitter great and a sorry hitter decent. I have played in those provided bat tourneys and have witnessed decent hitters hit the crap out of the ball and the crappy hitter......well hit like crap.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
JM once told me that he believed 75% of bats used in tourney play were altered in some way. Then again he also told me that as the state director is was not his job to keep people from cheating which is why he didn't test bats.

So then he is not responsible for stopping guys from cheating? Does this just pertain to bats or other ways of cheating? Seems to me that one of the main objectives of a director is to be a rule enforcer and there are rules against cheating. Not just rules against shaving bats but other rules. Rigjt?
 
Why they didnt just make screw on or removable end caps (unwarrantied) is something that ill never understand. I dont see what the big hold up was,, if you lose your end cap you gotta buy a new one for 40$ and bat co.s make more money. If it cracks u gotta buy a 40$ new one, not waste an entire bat thats $300 retail kuz your noob friend tried slow pitch and cue balled a pitch. How many guys have lost teeth, got open 6-10 inch gashes and splits, lost vision, broken orbitals, etc. all caps do is protect the vulnerable end of the composite material from damage prevent a weird helmholtz resonance when you swing the bat, permatizing them doesn't effect performance at all. If other companies have inner barrel signature markings like easton (which i have seen pictures of myself) the equal distributed stress patterns of a rolled bat patterns would be noticable as well. All these guys getting hurt over the yrs, a couple deaths, new stamps, face masks, halo rules, compression testing, 3 hour pre game exterior bat examinations etc. all dramatically reduced and other methods made obsolete with one glance at the inside of the barrel
 

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
Why they didnt just make screw on or removable end caps (unwarrantied) is something that ill never understand. I dont see what the big hold up was,, if you lose your end cap you gotta buy a new one for 40$ and bat co.s make more money. If it cracks u gotta buy a 40$ new one, not waste an entire bat thats $300 retail kuz your noob friend tried slow pitch and cue balled a pitch. How many guys have lost teeth, got open 6-10 inch gashes and splits, lost vision, broken orbitals, etc. all caps do is protect the vulnerable end of the composite material from damage prevent a weird helmholtz resonance when you swing the bat, permatizing them doesn't effect performance at all. If other companies have inner barrel signature markings like easton (which i have seen pictures of myself) the equal distributed stress patterns of a rolled bat patterns would be noticable as well. All these guys getting hurt over the yrs, a couple deaths, new stamps, face masks, halo rules, compression testing, 3 hour pre game exterior bat examinations etc. all dramatically reduced and other methods made obsolete with one glance at the inside of the barrel

Because bat companies aren't going to change unless they have to because if one company does and the rest don't they are going to lose sales. The reality is bats companies love it when people shave their bats, nothing improves sales than seeing someone hit lasers with a specific bat. If one company makes this change all the people who want to shave bats won't buy their brand and they will lose money. Not to mention I'm sure a lot of their factory hitters won't be pleased.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
Because bat companies aren't going to change unless they have to because if one company does and the rest don't they are going to lose sales. The reality is bats companies love it when people shave their bats, nothing improves sales than seeing someone hit lasers with a specific bat. If one company makes this change all the people who want to shave bats won't buy their brand and they will lose money. Not to mention I'm sure a lot of their factory hitters won't be pleased.

Exactly!!! Remember a few years ago when the Extendeds were that worst bats ever? That is until you took a razor to it. Then it turned into an Ultra. I remember guys hitting with those. The catcher literally would duck because it would sound like a car back firing!! It was incredible.

The screw on end cap is something I have never thought of. In theory is sounds like a good idea. The whole thing about the bat company making more money selling end caps for $40 is not as appealing to the bat companies as having a dude shave a bat then selling him another at $2-300 bones when he blows it out after 100 cuts. Feel me??
 

rhound50

Rec Coed Superstar
Exactly!!! Remember a few years ago when the Extendeds were that worst bats ever? That is until you took a razor to it. Then it turned into an Ultra. I remember guys hitting with those. The catcher literally would duck because it would sound like a car back firing!! It was incredible.

The screw on end cap is something I have never thought of. In theory is sounds like a good idea. The whole thing about the bat company making more money selling end caps for $40 is not as appealing to the bat companies as having a dude shave a bat then selling him another at $2-300 bones when he blows it out after 100 cuts. Feel me??

Yup not to mention that shaving bats is a double whammy because shaved bats are no longer returnable. If a normal bat lasts 1000 swing and can be returned for another to get a 2nd 1000 swings vs a shaved bat which can't be returned and at best will last 500 swings. All the bat companies see is $$$$$$$$$$$$.

So then he is not responsible for stopping guys from cheating? Does this just pertain to bats or other ways of cheating? Seems to me that one of the main objectives of a director is to be a rule enforcer and there are rules against cheating. Not just rules against shaving bats but other rules. Rigjt?

Our state director is a POS, the reality is he is to lazy and greedy to care. Testing would cost him money to buy testers, it would cost him money by losing teams and it would require effort on his part. The good news is it sounds likely he is officially done after this season.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
I was just explaining to my 12 year old son how I thought that the screw on end cap was a good idea. He looked at me and said "Dad! What does it matter? Some guy will figure out how to get around that to shave a bat!" Awesome! 12 years old!!
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
You are right about the bat companies. I have always thought that if Nike and Reebok are making bats imagine the money that is being made. I mean Nike and Reebok already have enough going on yet they still make some softball bats.
 

chrometip78

The Hungarian Barbarian
Yup not to mention that shaving bats is a double whammy because shaved bats are no longer returnable. If a normal bat lasts 1000 swing and can be returned for another to get a 2nd 1000 swings vs a shaved bat which can't be returned and at best will last 500 swings. All the bat companies see is $$$$$$$$$$$$.



Our state director is a POS, the reality is he is to lazy and greedy to care. Testing would cost him money to buy testers, it would cost him money by losing teams and it would require effort on his part. The good news is it sounds likely he is officially done after this season.

All World tournies big around you? They do tournies in the valley, old stamp 1.2 without a care about an end cap, utrip pitching, & 44/375 Thunder Heats. Could see them getting much more popular if other associations start testing. I know ASA tournies test when they're around, might hear about 1 a year....
 

B-REAL09

Dont Even Trip
All World tournies big around you? They do tournies in the valley, old stamp 1.2 without a care about an end cap, utrip pitching, & 44/375 Thunder Heats. Could see them getting much more popular if other associations start testing. I know ASA tournies test when they're around, might hear about 1 a year....

old stamp 1.2's and 44/375's are fun to hit.
 
Because bat companies aren't going to change unless they have to because if one company does and the rest don't they are going to lose sales. The reality is bats companies love it when people shave their bats, nothing improves sales than seeing someone hit lasers with a specific bat. If one company makes this change all the people who want to shave bats won't buy their brand and they will lose money. Not to mention I'm sure a lot of their factory hitters won't be pleased.

Yeah, until they realized they can do it THEMSELVES...
my easton redline says 'thinnest walls ever' (pause: )
my advanced powerdomes say 'ultra thin wall', and guys were getting rocked left and right, a lot of newjacks who never knew aluminum, not even in LL forget they went to composite for a reason, HS kids were getting killed and blasted. Shaved bats and they ended up in the same predicament, but thats neither here nor there.
What IS is that the companies themselves took the same application to the composites, thinned the walls out themselves, NOW they're testing 230 out of the wrapper, that is if they dont fail in the wrapper, and if you try to shave it your using more energy than the 50 bp hits itll take to fire it up.
while asa changed their specs by a smidgen to get themselves back in the game, usssa added a stamp moniker and changed absolutely NOTHING except certification marks.
NOW they use half the composite material to make a stick, theres the material you make your 'warranty return' after your smokin' 'hot out of the wrapper' bat fails before playoffs or fall, everyones forced to buy new bats, the new certs put an end to 3 generations of 2nd 3rd 12th-hand bat selling, the LD and TDs are pleased because the shaving industry just halted production almost negating any chance of a lawsuit as long as they compr test pre season, and Players are stoked because theyre (finally) hitting scuds wit legal bats. Sounds like everyone won, right? Tell that to the guy who lost 3D vision before these companies smartened their act up.
 
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RC#13

Part Time Player
^^^^Yep!!!! The thing is I wouldn't change a thing about that day I got hit other than wanting to see the ball leave the bat. At no time did I accuse dude of shaving his bat and he was pretty broken up about it. I didn't care then about shaved bats and i don't care now. They are there EVERYONE swings them and there is nothing that can be done. As long as everyone is profiting nothing will change. Bat companies of course profit. League/tourney directors profit. Cutters profit. Players profit. Who is loosing money? Just the guy that gets drilled!
 

josh20

Addicted to Softballfans
Bat shaving = porn. Nobody ever watches it, but it's a multi billion dollar industry. The point RC#13 made, was that 10 out of 11 guys in the lineups have a gassed bat. Both teams are showing up to the gunfight with guns. Nothing's going to happen until U-Trip starts from the top down. And it appears they (the Conference teams and directors) don't have a problem with it.
 

RC#13

Part Time Player
^^^^Nothing wrong with that. That's what we're all trying to do in this world....make some cabbage!!
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
My math was 10 out of 11. You're obviously the minority! So there you go! Everyone else on your team are cutters!!!

This is an over-estimation, imo. Even on teams that notoriously swinging glass, the whole team doesn't use them. Although I have seen teams have 10 bats against the fence, but everybody swinging the same 2-3 bats. But that's the exception, not the rule around NJ. Not to say that teams don't used shaved bats, but it's just not 90%.

I know, for a fact, that my Tournament team doesn't swing anything altered. Some guys do have shaved bats for bp/hr derbies and stuff, but we don't use them in game situations, ever.

My league teams have shaved bats, but it's a Clincher league, so who cares. Again, I don't swing those bats.
 
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