USSSA strike zone calls

dr_m_james

bp hero
According to the USSSA pitching rules, can a pitch be called a ball because it landed too far behind the plate?
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
As long as it doesn't hit the plate, gets three feet up from release and is on a downward trajectory when it enters the zone. The only other thing that matter is did it cross the zone between the front knee and highest shoulder. Now, very few umpires at any level in USSSA call the high strike, and the ones that do you can almost bet are also USA umpires.

What some umpires will do, especially at lower levels, is define a place in their mind that marks where they believe a pitch that hits there can't be a strike. In their mind, to hit there it has to be either flat or too high. Some do the even worse thing of believing that a pitch that hits in certain spot has to be a strike.

Now the question is what can you do about it, nothing really. An umpire's strike zone isn't protestable, the only thing you could do that might make you feel better would be to seek out the UIC and let them know what you believe. If the UIC hears enough of the same comments then they should be addressing it with the umpire.
 

Hagen49

Active Member
Somewhat related, we had an ump Wednesday night, who was calling pitches balls that landed 6 inches behind the plate, saying it was "deep on the batter." Unless you're throwing some unlimited arc pitch, and launching the ball 35 feet high, there is no way it can land there and be deep.
 

dunkky

Well-Known Member
i personally hate this BS strike zone. very inconsistent in low level. just go with damn mat. hit the mat, strike, miss it, ball. it's under thrown, so who cares. I have to step more than a foot in front, so i can attack this BS knee high flat pitch that's called strike which is clearly low. If they gonna go by where it lands, then screw it, just use a damn mat.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Somewhat related, we had an ump Wednesday night, who was calling pitches balls that landed 6 inches behind the plate, saying it was "deep on the batter." Unless you're throwing some unlimited arc pitch, and launching the ball 35 feet high, there is no way it can land there and be deep.
I would recommend trying to talk calmly with the umpire between innings. A good umpire will think about what you said and may adjust in the next game or the next night or the next week. Yelling, screaming, getting in the umpire's face isn't going to help your cause, nor is stopping the game to let them know what you think of their strike zone. Speaking calmly, quietly and out of earshot of anyone else will do much more for you. Now if they continue to make that call, speak to the league director or area UIC. I know when I did USSSA leagues in MN I would see the LD or UIC at least once a week, and the UIC almost always did a quick eval while he was there.
 
i do some slow pitch co-ed but they have there own silly rules.. as and many of will disagree hits the plate its strike... slow pitch isn't my specialty to call. im taken a week off from it. less stress on myself and car
 

Hagen49

Active Member
I would recommend trying to talk calmly with the umpire between innings. A good umpire will think about what you said and may adjust in the next game or the next night or the next week. Yelling, screaming, getting in the umpire's face isn't going to help your cause, nor is stopping the game to let them know what you think of their strike zone. Speaking calmly, quietly and out of earshot of anyone else will do much more for you. Now if they continue to make that call, speak to the league director or area UIC. I know when I did USSSA leagues in MN I would see the LD or UIC at least once a week, and the UIC almost always did a quick eval while he was there.

Here, it's to the point where umps will only speak with the team rep that comes out for the toss because of players going overboard. Unfortunately this particular week, that was not me, so I couldn't try to get a few words in between innings or anything. The rep for the week was playing LF so he didn't want to hold up the game. Beyond that it was a league night that a majority of the team gave 0 f*cks about. If we are catching those calls this weekend, I'm sure something will be said.
 

ETDave

Old School
I had one USA ump call a ball on a pitch that was 8-9 feet high and hit four or five inches behind the plate. He said it was because the batter was deep in the box and the pitch never made it to him. SMH.
 

DeputyUICHousto

Addicted to Softballfans
I had one USA ump call a ball on a pitch that was 8-9 feet high and hit four or five inches behind the plate. He said it was because the batter was deep in the box and the pitch never made it to him. SMH.

Sadly many umpires do not understand the concept that the strike zone is at the plate and where the batter stands (as long as he is in the batter's box) is irrelevant to balls and strikes.
 

ETDave

Old School
Sadly many umpires do not understand the concept that the strike zone is at the plate and where the batter stands (as long as he is in the batter's box) is irrelevant to balls and strikes.

I tried to explain that to him in a very nice, respectful way. He acted like I was the dumbest person on the face of the earth. Lol
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I heard a guy today say, the height of the batter has nothing to do with the strike zone. This was a player not the ump at least.
 

Sonic625

An Admin
Staff member
I was informed tonight there is an USA ump in our area said that any pitch that lands past the plate has to have had a 6 ft arc so it could never be called illegal.
:facepalm:
 

Iceman6409

Active Member
This is my personal favorite discussion with players. First and foremost - read the rule book. This is where we separate us from the players. Most, hopefully all umpires, actually read the rule book. Some, but very few, players actually do. That being said players THINK they know the rules but for the most part they don't. But like I said there are players that know a lot. I have read the strike zone rule quite a few times because it is the #1 gripe coming from the players. First off if the pitch is within the league stated arc and proper speed and it CROSSES the plate in the individual batters strike zone then it is a strike NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS. Pretty simple. The strike zone is shoulder to knee ABOVE the plate. The term "deep" does not exist in the rule book. If a batter stands up or behind home plate when batting it makes no difference. It is always where the ball is when it crosses the plate no matter where the batter is standing. If a player stands up in the batters box does home plate follow them up? No. Same with if they stand back. The plate never ever ever moves. Example - let's say a batter stands all the way up in the batters box. Pitch comes in within arc and speed but the pitch is up there in the specified arc. With the batter all the way up the pitch may be slightly above his/her shoulder when the pitch crosses the batters shoulder. At this point we have nothing yet. If that same pitch continues to fall over the plate and through the batters strike zone then you have a strike. The batter will complain because they think it is where it crosses their body. Players don't know the actual rule for the most part. Then they want to protest the calls like that. Since in this case it is a judgement call they cannot protest. But I let them anyways and 100% of the time they lose the argument as they are read the rule by the head official.

Players want the deep pitch called. Of course they do. They want everything and so does every pitcher. I personally never call a deep pitch. If it came through the batters strike zone above the plate within proper arc and speed then it doesn't matter where the ball lands or is caught. If the umpire thinks it had some speed on the pitch then it is their job to make the call. But players rarely whine about excessive speed.
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
I umpire USA only, but play both associations. I always enjoy hearing the "This isn't UTrip" comments when a 6' arc pitch is called a strike.

Also the "this isn't ASA" when a higher arc pitch is called a strike in USSSA. I never knew that 10' was measured differently depending on how m any "S's" are in the association name.
 

msw4indy

Addicted to Softballfans
I umpire USA only, but play both associations. I always enjoy hearing the "This isn't UTrip" comments when a 6' arc pitch is called a strike.

Also the "this isn't ASA" when a higher arc pitch is called a strike in USSSA. I never knew that 10' was measured differently depending on how m any "S's" are in the association name.

Same here. When we went from NSA to USSSA locally a few years ago, the 10ft strike went away because they all focused on the 3 ft from release. 10 ft is 10 ft is 10 ft.....

Our Sr league has a 6-12 ft pitch height and uses Utrip umpires who have probably never actually seen what a 12 ft pitch looks like so anything that gets over 10 ft is called too high......
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
This is my personal favorite discussion with players. First and foremost - read the rule book. This is where we separate us from the players. Most, hopefully all umpires, actually read the rule book. Some, but very few, players actually do. That being said players THINK they know the rules but for the most part they don't. But like I said there are players that know a lot. I have read the strike zone rule quite a few times because it is the #1 gripe coming from the players. First off if the pitch is within the league stated arc and proper speed and it CROSSES the plate in the individual batters strike zone then it is a strike NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS. Pretty simple. The strike zone is shoulder to knee ABOVE the plate. The term "deep" does not exist in the rule book. If a batter stands up or behind home plate when batting it makes no difference. It is always where the ball is when it crosses the plate no matter where the batter is standing. If a player stands up in the batters box does home plate follow them up? No. Same with if they stand back. The plate never ever ever moves. Example - let's say a batter stands all the way up in the batters box. Pitch comes in within arc and speed but the pitch is up there in the specified arc. With the batter all the way up the pitch may be slightly above his/her shoulder when the pitch crosses the batters shoulder. At this point we have nothing yet. If that same pitch continues to fall over the plate and through the batters strike zone then you have a strike. The batter will complain because they think it is where it crosses their body. Players don't know the actual rule for the most part. Then they want to protest the calls like that. Since in this case it is a judgement call they cannot protest. But I let them anyways and 100% of the time they lose the argument as they are read the rule by the head official.

Players want the deep pitch called. Of course they do. They want everything and so does every pitcher. I personally never call a deep pitch. If it came through the batters strike zone above the plate within proper arc and speed then it doesn't matter where the ball lands or is caught. If the umpire thinks it had some speed on the pitch then it is their job to make the call. But players rarely whine about excessive speed.
I always complain about it because its the dumbest thing ever. If you want less speed raise the minimum arc. If i throw a pitch in the arc requirements i want a strike if it's in the strike zone. It really pisses me off when i pitch from a legal distance behind the rubber, and they call excessive speed like i could get a ball across the plate at a slower speed. Again, if you don't want me throwing it that hard don't allow me to pitch from behind the rubber.

I don't see how pitchers can pitch without reading the rule book, but i rarely bother with utrip.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
This is my personal favorite discussion with players. First and foremost - read the rule book. This is where we separate us from the players. Most, hopefully all umpires, actually read the rule book. Some, but very few, players actually do. That being said players THINK they know the rules but for the most part they don't. But like I said there are players that know a lot. I have read the strike zone rule quite a few times because it is the #1 gripe coming from the players. First off if the pitch is within the league stated arc and proper speed and it CROSSES the plate in the individual batters strike zone then it is a strike NO MATTER WHERE IT LANDS. Pretty simple. The strike zone is shoulder to knee ABOVE the plate. The term "deep" does not exist in the rule book. If a batter stands up or behind home plate when batting it makes no difference. It is always where the ball is when it crosses the plate no matter where the batter is standing. If a player stands up in the batters box does home plate follow them up? No. Same with if they stand back. The plate never ever ever moves. Example - let's say a batter stands all the way up in the batters box. Pitch comes in within arc and speed but the pitch is up there in the specified arc. With the batter all the way up the pitch may be slightly above his/her shoulder when the pitch crosses the batters shoulder. At this point we have nothing yet. If that same pitch continues to fall over the plate and through the batters strike zone then you have a strike. The batter will complain because they think it is where it crosses their body. Players don't know the actual rule for the most part. Then they want to protest the calls like that. Since in this case it is a judgement call they cannot protest. But I let them anyways and 100% of the time they lose the argument as they are read the rule by the head official.

Players want the deep pitch called. Of course they do. They want everything and so does every pitcher. I personally never call a deep pitch. If it came through the batters strike zone above the plate within proper arc and speed then it doesn't matter where the ball lands or is caught. If the umpire thinks it had some speed on the pitch then it is their job to make the call. But players rarely whine about excessive speed.
My favorite is the guy that holds his hand up at his letters and tells me the pitch was "deep". As soon as I ask him if that's where the pitch was he gets all excited thinking I'm going to change my call. Then I tell him, yep that's where the pitch was, in the strike zone.
 
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