In a tournament game yesterday(GSA),the bases are loaded with two outs and the batter gets a base hit to leftcenter and the runners on third and second score with ease but the runner on first tries to reach third base on the hit and there is a bang bang play at third. The home plate umpire is standing behind the plate and calls the runner at third safe which he was actually out. My response to the HP umpire was you need to be in position at third to make a correct call cause that is where the play was at. He told me he had to be at home plate cause the previous two runners were coming home and that is where he needed to be,those runners were gonna score no matter what and he should have been in position at third since that's where the play was gonna be at. Needless to say he was wrong and the other team went on to score 6 more runs in that inning compared to him being in the right position at third and calling the runner out and we are out of the inning with no more damage done. I don't mind getting beat by good teams but when an umpire that isn't in the correct position to make an important call at a crucial time is unacceptable. In my opinion a lot of umpires don't know where they need to be on certain plays to make the right call. Am I wrong in this senerio?
Other umpire position
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BretMan
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Single umpire, I take it?
The best place he probably could have been was up the third base foul line, in foul territory. Sure, there are runners coming to the plate, but unless the ball is being thrown there, there really isn't much for an umpire to be watching. This position allows the umpire to quickly cover either home or third, depending on where the play goes.
Just standing behind the plate would not be the recommended mechanic for any of the major sanctioning bodies.
The best place he probably could have been was up the third base foul line, in foul territory. Sure, there are runners coming to the plate, but unless the ball is being thrown there, there really isn't much for an umpire to be watching. This position allows the umpire to quickly cover either home or third, depending on where the play goes.
Just standing behind the plate would not be the recommended mechanic for any of the major sanctioning bodies.
There was two umpires assigned to the field. Field umpire said the runner going to third was out from his vantage point but the home plate umpire would not ask him for help cause he said it was his call and he was in charge. A lot of missed calls because umpires want work together and some having ego issues. Live to play another day...
irishmafia
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Don't know about your game, but in other softball games, this is the BU's call.
Pete D
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(Umpire position???????) How's this - playing in a national in Reno - Ump misses a call - went to talk to him after the game about it (friendly) because he was being a jerk - after explaining which play - 3 other umpires who were waiting to go onto the field and saw it apologized - - - the "position" of the Ump that made the call - quote - I never make a mistake on the softball field, I'm never wrong....I walked away while the other Umps got embarrassed......
First and only time I ever got that
First and only time I ever got that
sjury
The Old Man
Devil's Advocate... had it only been one umpire and he was watching third, and didn't see a runner miss home plate, then the team would have been mad when their plate appeal was nullified. It's always something. Bottom line is, one play shouldn't decide a game, it's usually a series of events.
BretMan
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This is why you have to keep your head on a swivel. If you're able, try to grab a quick glance over your shoulder to see the runners touch the plate.
Two umpires with multiple runners is bad enough. When there's only one, there's no way you can see everything. You just have to see what you can. Your priority is going to be the ball and the actual play being made with it. That's way more important than a runner just running across the plate, with no play being made on him. 99 times out of 100, they're going to touch the plate and, if they don't, it's not like they're gaining some huge advantage that grossly skews the balance of fairness.
I agree with this 100%,most everybody is watching the play coming into third base and not gonna be watching the runners who is gonna score with ease. Eyes should be on the play at third,no way we could appeal a runner missing homeplate in that sequence of events and neither should the plate umpire. And let me also add that play didn't cost us the game,we lost because we didn't hit when we needed too. The play only added a bigger defecit we couldn't overcome.
MrEye
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Am I missing something? I thought this is the HP Umpire's call, as the BU is responsible for the BR, who is now coming into 2nd (Or still rounding 1st - hard to tell from the OP), but the runner coming into 3rd is clearly the runner that started at 1st. How can the BU button hook around first base and be responsible for a call at 3rd?
MrEye
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Yes, and in the OP, the BR is on 1st or 2nd, so this is in fact the PU's call.
MP33
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First off, bang bang plays can go either way, strictly a judgement call. Second, that is your opinion, and I can almost guarantee you the other team thinks it was the right call.
Third, if you have a problem with the umpiring in your league, or a lot of umpires in general, you got 2 choices:1) go get certified and start umping, 2) STFU and play better, one perceived missed call doesn't cost you the game.
GrandCherokee
Addicted to Softballfans
Wow, if I were umping and my partner told a player my call was wrong, I would not be happy with my partner.
Apparantly you didn't read my third post in this thread cause I stated that the call didn't cost us the game cause we didn't hit the ball when we needed too. I don't have a problem with umpires in our league cause they do a great job and this was a tournament we played in 3 hrs from home. I have played in a lot of places in my career and have come to the conclusion that there is bad umpires no matter where you go play. Finally my impression of you is... wait it doesn't matter what my impression is of you cause you are a softball god in your own eyes. Have a nice day...
Dakota Deerwood
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Question: Was he the only umpire on the field, or did he have a partner?
Dakota Deerwood
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Then the umpire's argument is invalid. In a situation like that, he needs to get up the 3rd base line and get on the call.. and his partner loops in behind him to cover a call at home plate (To see if the run scored before a possible out at 3rd base, or if the throw to 3rd base got away, and the runner attempted to score)..
The HP umpire needs to communicate better with his partner...
No, he was actually out. Check the rule book for the details.
You thought he should have been safe. It happens in almost every single game.
Was he out of position? A good ump may have been in a better position but, this is recreational slow pitch softball and you need to understand, that's part of the game. Ump a few games and you will be in a better position to judge.
I've never umped, never would. I'd be telling players to go **** them selves. When someone questioned my call, I'd give them my clicker and take their bat or glove, trade places and see if they could do better.
irishmafia
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Speaking ASA, NFHS, ISF, NCAA......this is absolutely wrong. In a 2 umpire game, the BU is never at the plate for any reason other than the pregame meeting.
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
The PU has the lead runner. The BU has all the trailing runners. As long as there is a possible play at the plate, the PU must be in a relatively decent position to make that call. If the BU is where s/he belongs (inside near the center of the diamond), s/he is approximately two steps from a good angle on a call at any base.