2023 USSSA Rule Changes

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
The tas they banned for being too hot. Sounds about right.

I had my hand broken through my glove with a classic m by a d player. I still have a brown mark on my calf from almost five years ago.

When tattoo ball did that call testing ten years ago the one classic m they tested ranked higher in the nocsae severity test than a red dot. More likely to crack a skull than a freaking 50/525, and ten years later utrip is still cool with that.


Classic M's (and .40 balls in general) are the worst softballs ever made. They have no bounce, and the core has no flex/elasticity. These balls destroy bats and cause debilitating injuries when they hit people. In cold/cool weather I feel like they're dangerous to use.

I would MUCH rather be hit by a .52 300 than any other ball. From a pitching standpoint I also feel like .52s come off the bat at a far more manageable speed. They can be fielded.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Classic M's (and .40 balls in general) are the worst softballs ever made. They have no bounce, and the core has no flex/elasticity. These balls destroy bats and cause debilitating injuries when they hit people. In cold/cool weather I feel like they're dangerous to use.

I would MUCH rather be hit by a .52 300 than any other ball. From a pitching standpoint I also feel like .52s come off the bat at a far more manageable speed. They can be fielded.
The thing I'm waiting to see is how badly utrip has painted themselves into a corner on this one. They've always says that they allow companies to bring bats back into spec. We all know the first batch synergy story.

If they don't ban these, and everyone knows some are out there out of spec, this will be a nightmare. Either they'll be sued into oblivion, or every company will start doing this any time they need to surge sales.
 

scottydoesnt

Extra Hitter
So I'm super late to this party. But the whole 220 / 240 compression standard is a joke as far as the stamp is concerned. I can take a Demarini Future testing at 300, but it is not allowed. Yet, a broken in Genesis testing around 250 is perfectly acceptable. Makes zero sense to me. Except the cash grab part. That makes sense.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
So I'm super late to this party. But the whole 220 / 240 compression standard is a joke as far as the stamp is concerned. I can take a Demarini Future testing at 300, but it is not allowed. Yet, a broken in Genesis testing around 250 is perfectly acceptable. Makes zero sense to me. Except the cash grab part. That makes sense.
I agree. Almost all of my 220 bats still test well above 240, yet they're basically paperweights now. I think 220 bats THAT STILL TEST ABOVE 240 should still be allowed. ANY bat that tests below 240 should be disallowed.

Now USSSA is introducing a new Pro M (ZN hard core) which basically negates the whole 240 bat standard. The ball is going to be ridiculous.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
I agree. Almost all of my 220 bats still test well above 240, yet they're basically paperweights now. I think 220 bats THAT STILL TEST ABOVE 240 should still be allowed. ANY bat that tests below 240 should be disallowed.

Now USSSA is introducing a new Pro M (ZN hard core) which basically negates the whole 240 bat standard. The ball is going to be ridiculous.
I was told that the Hard Core is only going to be used at complexes that all fields are at least 325. I'm interested to see if they use it at Viera and not use the temp fences at 300.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I was told that the Hard Core is only going to be used at complexes that all fields are at least 325. I'm interested to see if they use it at Viera and not use the temp fences at 300.
Honestly, that would be fine with me. I felt like the 300' fence was a little too small last year. Even with a normal Pro M the ball was sailing out.

In the old days it was 325' with classic Ms, and hardly anyone was hitting HRs.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Because we all know that infielders play so much further back when the fences are further. :rolleyes:
And the pitchers mound has a screen. This is the part I hate the absolute most about this. The guys that don't play defense are just like "move the fences back". They've been saying that since 2004, like real estate wasn't an issue then, but we could move the fences in and deaden all the equipment and it would be exactly the same!

Pitching at fifty feet isn't exactly easy. Especially when the wind starts.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I agree. Almost all of my 220 bats still test well above 240, yet they're basically paperweights now. I think 220 bats THAT STILL TEST ABOVE 240 should still be allowed. ANY bat that tests below 240 should be disallowed.

Now USSSA is introducing a new Pro M (ZN hard core) which basically negates the whole 240 bat standard. The ball is going to be ridiculous.
I'm willing to give it a chance. I hate the 40 cor. Even in South ga, where the cold wasn't much of a factor, it comes off the bat differently.

Why they feel the need to juice up a pro m to begin with is beyond me though. The previous ones were fine. If it's replacing the stadium, sure, but just for you and me? Makes no sense.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
I agree with both of you, it's a solution to a problem that didn't exist. After last weekend in Columbus they need to get rid of the ProM all together, the new batches are just too hard. Hot, humid and the ball was still flying like a classic M at 50 degrees. These ProMs might be ok in Viera at 325', but no way should they be used on 300 ft fields.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I agree with both of you, it's a solution to a problem that didn't exist. After last weekend in Columbus they need to get rid of the ProM all together, the new batches are just too hard. Hot, humid and the ball was still flying like a classic M at 50 degrees. These ProMs might be ok in Viera at 325', but no way should they be used on 300 ft fields.

Did they use the hard core Pro M in GA last weekend, or the normal ones?

I'm supposed to play in military worlds down there, and I'm wondering what ball they'll have by then....

Hard core on 325' in Viera could be decent. I guess time will tell. If/when I go down there again I'll discuss what happens here.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I'm willing to give it a chance. I hate the 40 cor. Even in South ga, where the cold wasn't much of a factor, it comes off the bat differently.

Why they feel the need to juice up a pro m to begin with is beyond me though. The previous ones were fine. If it's replacing the stadium, sure, but just for you and me? Makes no sense.

I've never liked classic Ms. Most of the season here in CO they're VERY hard and do nothing but injure people and break bats.

When it gets really hot they turn into the deadest balls known to mankind.

Luckily no leagues or tournies I play in use classic Ms. Haven't for years.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Did they use the hard core Pro M in GA last weekend, or the normal ones?

I'm supposed to play in military worlds down there, and I'm wondering what ball they'll have by then....

Hard core on 325' in Viera could be decent. I guess time will tell. If/when I go down there again I'll discuss what happens here.
It was the standard ProM, but it seems all of the batches that start with E are harder and hotter than the older B and C batches. Had a few DV ProMs get into the buckets Friday in Chicago, that was instantly noticed.
The plan as far as I've been told is only on 325+ will the Hard Core be used. The only place it's been used so far this year was Myrtle Beach.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
It was the standard ProM, but it seems all of the batches that start with E are harder and hotter than the older B and C batches. Had a few DV ProMs get into the buckets Friday in Chicago, that was instantly noticed.
The plan as far as I've been told is only on 325+ will the Hard Core be used. The only place it's been used so far this year was Myrtle Beach.

I've been seeing EC and EB lately. Those are good balls. No complaints.

DV, BN, and BD were all garbage.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I've never liked classic Ms. Most of the season here in CO they're VERY hard and do nothing but injure people and break bats.

When it gets really hot they turn into the deadest balls known to mankind.

Luckily no leagues or tournies I play in use classic Ms. Haven't for years.
Exactly, except all we use here is that. It's the end of June, and it was 62 on my way into work this morning. So you've got a truck for the early and late games, and a turd for the middle of the day games. Even when it's trash to hit, it still does more damage imo to the players when it hits them.

My league I have teammates that can't make 630 games, so almost every game it's chilly. It sucks so bad. I'm seriously considering not playing league next year because of it. It's been the best part about having this broken hand.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
It was the standard ProM, but it seems all of the batches that start with E are harder and hotter than the older B and C batches. Had a few DV ProMs get into the buckets Friday in Chicago, that was instantly noticed.
The plan as far as I've been told is only on 325+ will the Hard Core be used. The only place it's been used so far this year was Myrtle Beach.
Not going to lie, I was watching the mpt conference game from this where they hit all the solos in a row and instantly assumed it was the hard core. I've played there, and that's noticeable even for these guys. Maybe it was chilly.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Not going to lie, I was watching the mpt conference game from this where they hit all the solos in a row and instantly assumed it was the hard core. I've played there, and that's noticeable even for these guys. Maybe it was chilly.
In Columbus? It was 95 with 90% humidity. The new balls are just stitched so tight compared to previous ones that they are flying.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
In Columbus? It was 95 with 90% humidity. The new balls are just stitched so tight compared to previous ones that they are flying.
That's what I'm saying, was just leaving that caveat in case it was something other than the balls. For those conditions for them to be accidentally hitting those liners right and left says a lot about those balls.

I don't understand why Dudley has so much variance in their balls. It's the same as the temp diffs with the classic Ms really. It really handicaps you defensively when you don't know what to expect.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
That's what I'm saying, was just leaving that caveat in case it was something other than the balls. For those conditions for them to be accidentally hitting those liners right and left says a lot about those balls.

I don't understand why Dudley has so much variance in their balls. It's the same as the temp diffs with the classic Ms really. It really handicaps you defensively when you don't know what to expect.

Dudley ran into a lot of production problems in China the last 3 years. Honestly, they're going to have to find a different country to get stuff made in.

Some Pro Ms were really good, and others were almost comically bad. I hate classic Ms, but at least you don't see much variance in them.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Played in an ultra draft this weekend that sold us pro Ms that sounded like cardboard. It was 80+ in the heat of the day, but they sounded worse than usual. I still prefer that too classic Ms, but it's crazy to me that most people prefer these to possess just on sound or bounces.

That being said, they also provided screens for each field and they were barely used. My team said we don't want it, without even asking me lol. So you don't want it to help on defense, and you're going to blame trying to not hit a woman pitching for your outs, but you don't want the solution that clears all that up at once. Got it.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Played in an ultra draft this weekend that sold us pro Ms that sounded like cardboard. It was 80+ in the heat of the day, but they sounded worse than usual. I still prefer that too classic Ms, but it's crazy to me that most people prefer these to possess just on sound or bounces.

That being said, they also provided screens for each field and they were barely used. My team said we don't want it, without even asking me lol. So you don't want it to help on defense, and you're going to blame trying to not hit a woman pitching for your outs, but you don't want the solution that clears all that up at once. Got it.


What brand were these bad Pro Ms?

Pro Ms get surprisingly bad when you start approaching 90 degrees. It doesn't even matter what brand, they're all dead AF.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
What brand were these bad Pro Ms?

Pro Ms get surprisingly bad when you start approaching 90 degrees. It doesn't even matter what brand, they're all dead AF.
Certainly wasn't the case in Columbus two weeks ago and I doubt it will be the case in Kansas City on Friday. Temps at game time on Friday are expected to be 98 degrees.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Certainly wasn't the case in Columbus two weeks ago and I doubt it will be the case in Kansas City on Friday. Temps at game time on Friday are expected to be 98 degrees.
I don't understand what's going on with all brands, but definitely not Dudley. They're having some real issues, or our local people are just storing them in ovens. I could see either or.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Take a look at the batch code if you see issues with ZNs. D's were horrible, C's were bad, the B's were good and what they were supposed to be. The E's seem to be almost Stadium like in how hard they are. In the Chicago major it was a completely different sound when a D code got into the buckets compared to the E. We used the D for the undercard on Sunday and even those guys were complaining about how bad the D code balls were. Where you are, they may still be using older balls that they've had, or that have been given to them just to get rid of them.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Certainly wasn't the case in Columbus two weeks ago and I doubt it will be the case in Kansas City on Friday. Temps at game time on Friday are expected to be 98 degrees.

Some batches of ZN Pro Ms can be good in heat/humidity, but others are awful. If you have EC balls you might be OK.

KH was the first batch of ZN Pro Ms ever made. I got a bunch of them in Viera that first year. Those balls were great. They never really mushed up. I don't think any of the subsequent batches have ever been as good.

DM and DV were awful.

BNs were also bad.

On a side note, I've been hitting a few of those Ghost Pro Ms in BP lately. In cold/cool weather they feel great and jump. Now that it's hot I feel like they die pretty badly. Not super impressed.

The 2 Tattoo Pro Ms I had in the bucket also seemed bad. They have a wet, heavy feel to them. In cool weather they're hard as a rock, but when it gets hot they sponge up a lot. They felt like the deadest classic Ms imaginable.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I don't understand what's going on with all brands, but definitely not Dudley. They're having some real issues, or our local people are just storing them in ovens. I could see either or.

Dudley has definitely had issues, and their batches of balls have varied WILDLY over the last 3 years. It can be night and day difference between batches.

Even stadium balls were affected. Probably classic Ms as well.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Those pro m zns were for the league Joe ultra draft, so they were brought in in a box truck and I'm sure they were stored all the way here in that same truck. I looked at them, but couldn't remember the code you said and I can't remember now either.

I see the hard core for sale on fb now, so I guess we can hit those.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Some batches of ZN Pro Ms can be good in heat/humidity, but others are awful. If you have EC balls you might be OK.
Had ET and EK batches this weekend and they were flying. Game time temp on Friday was 98 with a heat index of 109. Saturday was much cooler but the humidity was ridiculous.
The TD was selling Hard Core for the undercard for $70/dz, I was told by the national office those were only supposed to be Conference balls this year just like the ProM was the first year. The Hard Core feel really spongy but the guys all say they fly almost like a stadium.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Had ET and EK batches this weekend and they were flying. Game time temp on Friday was 98 with a heat index of 109. Saturday was much cooler but the humidity was ridiculous.
The TD was selling Hard Core for the undercard for $70/dz, I was told by the national office those were only supposed to be Conference balls this year just like the ProM was the first year. The Hard Core feel really spongy but the guys all say they fly almost like a stadium.

I talked to a USSSA guy at the Band Aid tourny here in CO who said the hard core is going to be mainstream before long.

I haven't seen ET or EK batches yet.

Hard cores probably feel spongy because they have a soft outer cover. Very much like X Rocks from years ago. Those balls are deceptive. The soft cover conceals a very hard core.

I have a couple big tournies coming up on large (320') fields. It'll be the first time all year heat and balls will really play a factor. We'll probably use Tattoo Pro Ms.
 
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