Any Arguments and Threats

[spos21ram]

Our season has been fairly issue free, but we have had a couple altercations between teams that started over middle shots...shocker. A couple questions...

1. What is the proper protocol for an umpire when players get into it with each other? Obviously you tell them to knock it off, play ball, etc. and can toss guys if the arguing, swearing continues, but what if it gets physical? I may have been wrong, but I told my umpires once players start pushing and god forbid throwing punches, not to get in the middle of it. At this point tell the scorer to call the police. My reason behind this is why put an umpire in the middle of this?

2. What do you do when a player threatens the pitcher by saying something along the lines of "next time I'm gonna knock your head off"?

3. Now what if the player who made the threat shoots middle next at bat? Hitting middle is part of the game and umpires shouldn't have to be trying to figure out if someone is intentionally trying to hit a pitcher or just trying to get a hit, but a previous threat was made.

 

[NCASAUmp]

When things get heated, I usually call "time" and pull one (or both) of the coaches away from the benches, where we have a little "chat." I remind them that they're responsible for their players' behavior, and that things need to cool down fast. The bickering will stop, and it will stop right now. The pause in the game will help cool things off.

If things actually do get physical, I sit back and take notes. 911 will be called, players will be ejected. Never, EVER get in the middle of it. A punch meant for someone else may end up connecting with you instead, or worse. Or if you grab someone to pull them out of the mix and someone clocks them, you could be on the hook for not allowing them to defend themselves.

If I see players about to square off, I'll give a huge "TIME!!!" and do my best to take charge. Sometimes it works, sometimes people are just idiots.

As far as following through on a hitting middle threat, well, there's not much you can do about that. As soon as the threat is made, time should be called, and I'm talking with the coaches as described above.

 

[dttruax]

Throw em all out

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RfMVu-bfng"]Major League 2 - Fight - YouTube[/ame]

 

[cyoung187]

When things get heated, I usually call "time" and pull one (or both) of the coaches away from the benches, where we have a little "chat." I remind them that they're responsible for their players' behavior, and that things need to cool down fast. The bickering will stop, and it will stop right now. The pause in the game will help cool things off.

If things actually do get physical, I sit back and take notes. 911 will be called, players will be ejected. Never, EVER get in the middle of it. A punch meant for someone else may end up connecting with you instead, or worse. Or if you grab someone to pull them out of the mix and someone clocks them, you could be on the hook for not allowing them to defend themselves.

If I see players about to square off, I'll give a huge "TIME!!!" and do my best to take charge. Sometimes it works, sometimes people are just idiots.

As far as following through on a hitting middle threat, well, there's not much you can do about that. As soon as the threat is made, time should be called, and I'm talking with the coaches as described above.

This. If a player makes a threat he should be warned at the least.

 

[Strawberry]

ISA which is dying here btw in ga has this rule for the exact thing you asked about....


This will be in effect for the 2013 season.

There were too many threats of hitting the middle last weekend, so the following will be in effect for the 2013 season. Umpires will go over this in their pregame and that will be the only warning given!!!

I have instructed the umpires "that if you hear this from either side of the dugouts’ and do not know who says this coach will be ejected from the game!!!!" If this happen before the start of the 5th inning this ejection will be for this game only, if this happen starting at the fifth inning until the teams are off the field this person / or persons will be out the rest of this game and the next game.

In an effort to further strengthen the conduct policy already in place and to clean address some problems occurring this season GA ISA will implement the following additional penalties (along with those already in place) to their conduct policy.

A. Any ISA or Park Official witnessing any gestures or verbal phrasing by a player that can be taken as a threat against any player, official, or fan can be immediately ejected from a game or tournament and may be subjected to a minimum suspension of 2 Big 10 Tournaments in which their team plays. There will also be a probation period of 1 year from the date of the infraction for the player involved. If additional problems continue with that player or the team they play with the coach and/or other players will be subjected to the same suspensions and/or probations. NOTE: This rule not only covers any gestures or threats against someone specific but can be enforced during a game in which the threat to "HIT THE MIDDLE" is used.

B. Any involvement by the fans that may cause issues with the enforcement of these penalties may cause the fan to be removed from the game area for remainder of that game or the tournament. If after any such penalty there is a problem with the same fan, further actions may be taken by GA ISA and/or the park in which the tournament is being played. Any player or person involved in a game that has an altercation with a fan or anyone not involved in their game the same penalties as stated above will apply.

 

[rhound50]

The ISF rule is stupid IMO, I like the idea but the enforcement is almost impossible. The umpire is not going to hear everything that comes from each dugout and the umpire shouldn't be forced to interpret everything that comes out of every players mouth based on if it isnt a comment about hitting middle. There is so much gray area that no one is ever going to be happy either way. so if the third base coach says "gotta be fair, use the middle of the field," should the guy be tossed? One team hits middle and says nothing, at the end of the half inning the team coming to bat yells "Lets even this up." Is he talking about middle or trying to score runs to not be losing anymore.

1. In games I've played its always worked well when the umpire says "next one who says something gets tossed." This can also be used by wcalling both coaches for a chat and tell them to tell their teams the same thing. If an altercation gets physical the umpires should get the heck out of the way and observe. Any umpire is never going to singlehandedly stop a brawl, not to mention they dont get paid enough to get punched, kicked or karate chopped. They are also the only person who is going to have an unbiased view of what happened for punishment later. If a brawl breaks out you want to make sure the people who are responsible get booted so its less likely to happen again and an umpire that is in the middle of the sea of bodies is not going to have as good a view of what is going on. FWIW our local park installed camera's so when fights break out there is a lot more to go on who should get banned.

2. There are no rules against hitting the ball at the middle of the field unless it is a local league or tourney rule. What there is a rule about it getting into a verbal confrontation with the other team. An umpire should not eject a player for hitting at a pitcher even if they threatened to do it before. Any umpire should throw out a player for unsportsmanlike conduct for running their mouth about hitting middle and trying to hurt someone. If that player runs to first and says nothing he hasn't broken any rules. If he runs to first running his mouth than the umpire can consider if his violation is worth an ejection.

 

[irishmafia]

The ISF rule is stupid IMO, .

Really? What rule is that?

 

[spos21ram]

The ISF rule is stupid IMO, I like the idea but the enforcement is almost impossible. The umpire is not going to hear everything that comes from each dugout and the umpire shouldn't be forced to interpret everything that comes out of every players mouth based on if it isnt a comment about hitting middle. There is so much gray area that no one is ever going to be happy either way. so if the third base coach says "gotta be fair, use the middle of the field," should the guy be tossed? One team hits middle and says nothing, at the end of the half inning the team coming to bat yells "Lets even this up." Is he talking about middle or trying to score runs to not be losing anymore.

1. In games I've played its always worked well when the umpire says "next one who says something gets tossed." This can also be used by wcalling both coaches for a chat and tell them to tell their teams the same thing. If an altercation gets physical the umpires should get the heck out of the way and observe. Any umpire is never going to singlehandedly stop a brawl, not to mention they dont get paid enough to get punched, kicked or karate chopped. They are also the only person who is going to have an unbiased view of what happened for punishment later. If a brawl breaks out you want to make sure the people who are responsible get booted so its less likely to happen again and an umpire that is in the middle of the sea of bodies is not going to have as good a view of what is going on. FWIW our local park installed camera's so when fights break out there is a lot more to go on who should get banned.

2. There are no rules against hitting the ball at the middle of the field unless it is a local league or tourney rule. What there is a rule about it getting into a verbal confrontation with the other team. An umpire should not eject a player for hitting at a pitcher even if they threatened to do it before. Any umpire should throw out a player for unsportsmanlike conduct for running their mouth about hitting middle and trying to hurt someone. If that player runs to first and says nothing he hasn't broken any rules. If he runs to first running his mouth than the umpire can consider if his violation is worth an ejection.

I'm not talking about gray area situations that can be interpreted in 10 different ways. I'm talking about threatening comments like "next at bat i'm gonna knock your head off"...that statement is pretty clear.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I'm not talking about gray area situations that can be interpreted in 10 different ways. I'm talking about threatening comments like "next at bat i'm gonna knock your head off"...that statement is pretty clear.

It may be clear to everyone present, but it's still a judgment call.

If a batter-runner beats the throw by 5 steps and gets called out, it's still a judgment call if the umpire says "the throw beat the runner." It may actually qualify for the worst ****ing call in the world, but it's still a judgment call.

 

[spos21ram]

It may be clear to everyone present, but it's still a judgment call.

If a batter-runner beats the throw by 5 steps and gets called out, it's still a judgment call if the umpire says "the throw beat the runner." It may actually qualify for the worst ****ing call in the world, but it's still a judgment call.

I don't really want to have to throw people out unless it's definitely warranted so these are the answers i was looking for. There are always those players in the league that want people thrown out for every little thing.

 

[obagain]

The best one I have seen, and I use it now, is the 2 guys are jawing and the ump yells out, "guys, you are playing for a tshirt, is that worth going to jail for?"
It stopped both in their tracks and made them see the situation clear and how stupid they were acting.
I say let them throw down and get suspended for the year.

 

[joncon]

"guys, you are playing for a tshirt, is that worth going to jail for?"

I like that!


I am usually the voice of reason, trying to point out that we are playing a game of recreational slow pitch softball.

 

[Katzy63]

We have a "box" rule that is completely umpires judgement to begin with to protect the pitcher. What kills me is when some dbag filling in on a team a few divisions below his level brings his A-game to Beginners Just Out of the Womb night. 1st inning, some guy goes chest high middle and Mr. Dbag starts spouting off how he goes middle harder. I call time and bring the coaches in for a chat about conduct and taunting, etc.. Told them from that point due to people talking about going middle that anyone who does it purposely or accidentally would be ejected, and they both agreed they didn't want to see anyone get hurt or tossed but saw my point of view. Game goes on for another inning or so until Mr. Dbag comes up. First pitch he hits a laser hip high right dead middle, walks to towards the dugout and spouts, "That's how you piss middle boys! See you at the bar!" Can anyone explain the point for his actions other than to prove he has amazing bat control?

As an umpire I believe, and I might be wrong, that I have a responsibility for the safety of all players on the field to protect them from injuries that can be inflicted through willful intent. Whether I just worded that wrong or not, by this I mean that if a player says he's gonna knock someones head off (as described in a post above) he needs to be removed from the game before he can carry out his threat. Being in a sue happy state like California, you need to protect your own rear end as well as those playing on your field. Every rule book I've ever seen has a section in there about unsportsmanlike conduct, as well as every Podunk League has it in their amended rules of play. When I started doing this back in the early 80's players respected each other and the "blues" as well. Now there is so much thuggery on the field that we don't respect each other or those who are there so that you can play your game.

 

[rhound50]

I'm not talking about gray area situations that can be interpreted in 10 different ways. I'm talking about threatening comments like "next at bat i'm gonna knock your head off"...that statement is pretty clear.

Problem is when someone says something that's borderline people are going to be pissed that something wasnt called and even more people are going to be upset. What is a clear and obvious threat in some people's opinion is not in others.

We have a "box" rule that is completely umpires judgement to begin with to protect the pitcher. What kills me is when some dbag filling in on a team a few divisions below his level brings his A-game to Beginners Just Out of the Womb night. 1st inning, some guy goes chest high middle and Mr. Dbag starts spouting off how he goes middle harder. I call time and bring the coaches in for a chat about conduct and taunting, etc.. Told them from that point due to people talking about going middle that anyone who does it purposely or accidentally would be ejected, and they both agreed they didn't want to see anyone get hurt or tossed but saw my point of view. Game goes on for another inning or so until Mr. Dbag comes up. First pitch he hits a laser hip high right dead middle, walks to towards the dugout and spouts, "That's how you piss middle boys! See you at the bar!" Can anyone explain the point for his actions other than to prove he has amazing bat control?

As an umpire I believe, and I might be wrong, that I have a responsibility for the safety of all players on the field to protect them from injuries that can be inflicted through willful intent. Whether I just worded that wrong or not, by this I mean that if a player says he's gonna knock someones head off (as described in a post above) he needs to be removed from the game before he can carry out his threat. Being in a sue happy state like California, you need to protect your own rear end as well as those playing on your field. Every rule book I've ever seen has a section in there about unsportsmanlike conduct, as well as every Podunk League has it in their amended rules of play. When I started doing this back in the early 80's players respected each other and the "blues" as well. Now there is so much thuggery on the field that we don't respect each other or those who are there so that you can play your game.

Dude is a douchebag, the other thing he proved is that he is idiot who thinks he is way better than he is. While I applaud your desire to keep players safe but other than your local rule I dont think the rules support tossing players for hitting middle. You absolutely can throw a player out for running his mouth and talking about hurting someone but nowhere in the rule book does it say there is a restriction on where in the field of play a hitter can hit the ball. The center of the field is part of the game, if the league is a lot of new people who don't know the game very well then the local league should use a screen.

 

[Laoch]

If I threaten to hit at the 3rd baseman and follow through, oh never mind forget it.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Knock it off has always worked for me. I have never had a real blow up on a field in a few thousand games. I will preface this with.....at a charity tournament a dozen or so years ago at another field....our Regional ASA UIC ejected about 15 players during a game. It is still talked about around here. He never said a word and just pulled out his line up holder and started taking down numbers.

This was a Toys for Tots tournament that many of us had donated time too......No Marines were involved........I umpired in the FP tournament in Fort Bend County after that.......

 

[irishmafia]

It stopped both in their tracks and made them see the situation clear and how stupid they were acting.
I say let them throw down and get suspended for the year.

If I had to stop the game to remind a player how stupid they were acting, we'd never get a full 7 innings in.