Checking for shaved bats

[tommyd]

Our USSSA league got really strict about checking for illegal bats when the ball is hit at the pitcher. Even slower hit grounders end up getting checked, if they are hit towards the pitcher. Slows our game down some. Last night, the other team ended up having four bats checked.

I had never seen one actually proclaimed illegal, until last night. I had one hit back at me, made the play, and sure enough they took it. When they came back, they kicked the guy out of the game and suspended him for another week. This is my coed league. Thought it was kind of ridiculous to shave a bat for coed. But, got to thinking this guy could've bought this bat used for all I know.

How do they actually check that? I don't think I'd ever want to buy a used bat now, unless I could check it.

 

[Jordan9215]

When you say they're checking for shaved bats, do you mean they're doing compression tests or visual inspections?

 

[tommyd]

Jordan9215,

In all honesty, I have no idea. When it gets hit at the pitcher, the ump calls the main building. Guy comes out on a cart and takes the bat back to the building. They test and and bring it back.

I just found out that the guy is claiming it wasn't shaved, just broken in? Also, saying their measuring equipment isn't reliable.

 

[The BP Hero]

Our USSSA league got really strict about checking for illegal bats when the ball is hit at the pitcher. Even slower hit grounders end up getting checked, if they are hit towards the pitcher. Slows our game down some. Last night, the other team ended up having four bats checked.

I had never seen one actually proclaimed illegal, until last night. I had one hit back at me, made the play, and sure enough they took it. When they came back, they kicked the guy out of the game and suspended him for another week. This is my coed league. Thought it was kind of ridiculous to shave a bat for coed. But, got to thinking this guy could've bought this bat used for all I know.

How do they actually check that? I don't think I'd ever want to buy a used bat now, unless I could check it.

Never be surprised to see a shaved bat anywhere you go. They're out there more than you think. Even seen women swinging shaved FP sticks in coed. Some people will do anything to win.

 

[bd22_pub]

if you don't know how they are testing it then find out! i had my bat taken in Sterling Heights, MI during a USSSA tourny and I had to pick it up at the office and it had a post it note on the bat with a #. I don't remember the number but my bat was LEGAL. I'm thinking it was a compression test, i don't know what else it could have been. a visual check does nothing. unless the end cap is popped off. JMO

 

[ImminentDanger]

There is still the FALSE IMPRESSION that compression tests are able to determine whether a bat has been shaved or otherwise altered for perfomance.... IT IS A FALSE IMPRESSION...

It is simply a test for compressability of that particular spot on the bat... but there has been nearly no quality research to prove that that spot being too compressable means the bat has been altered or that it makes the bat more dangerous than before it was that compressable...

The bat compression testing is just a Soothing Charade to satisfy the conscience of those who 'want to do something about shaved bats' or to assuage the fears of those who think 'compression testing really makes the game safer'...

Like much of America --- Perception is reality --- and no one really wants to know the truth...

%%%

 

[Stump]

There is still the FALSE IMPRESSION that compression tests are able to determine whether a bat has been shaved or otherwise altered for perfomance.... IT IS A FALSE IMPRESSION...

It is simply a test for compressability of that particular spot on the bat... but there has been nearly no quality research to prove that that spot being too compressable means the bat has been altered or that it makes the bat more dangerous than before it was that compressable...

The bat compression testing is just a Soothing Charade to satisfy the conscience of those who 'want to do something about shaved bats' or to assuage the fears of those who think 'compression testing really makes the game safer'...

Like much of American --- Perception is reality --- and no one really wants to know the truth...

%%%

Actually, you are wrong, hate to burst your bubble.

ASA Compression testing and standards has been conducted, and continues to be conducted by Washington State University with specific equipment designed for testing ball speed, flight, compression, etc. every year. I is why the 2013 stamp was developed, it is why bats who fail compression on average no longer fit within the thresholds. That is why an older composite bat fails, just like a shaved bat.

I assume that the same is done by NSA and U-trip.

These decisions are not made ina vacuum by some hick somewhere. Is it fool proof, no, but nothing is. Better to err on the side of caution. It only softball for crying out loud.

 

[tommyd]

ImminentDanger,

Are you trying to say it might've been a mistake to key the guy's car?!?

 

[Jordan9215]

Jordan9215,

In all honesty, I have no idea. When it gets hit at the pitcher, the ump calls the main building. Guy comes out on a cart and takes the bat back to the building. They test and and bring it back.

I just found out that the guy is claiming it wasn't shaved, just broken in? Also, saying their measuring equipment isn't reliable.

If they're taking the bat back to an office then they're likely doing a compression test on it. Take a little bit from all the replies above. I'd have a conversation with the LD about what they're doing.

Just because a bat fails a compression test does not mean it is shaved, it means it failed a compression test. If they're kicking someone out for this then they need to be a little more educated on the topic.

I'd have a few suggestions for them to encourage a safer atmosphere, because shaved/ altered bats really are everywhere. Even in coed.

Most leagues or tournaments visually inspect all bats before each game and place them in a bucket outside of the dugout near the on-deck circle. (We're pretending there's an on-deck circle...)

A league my friends play in does a compression test each season on every bat at the Parks and Rec office. When a bat passes, they place a sticker on the bat for the umpires to look for each game. (they had big problems with altered bats.)

 

[tommyd]

I'm really unfamiliar with the whole shaving process. But, a visual inspection wouldn't reveal shaving, would it? I assumed people shave the insides of the bat.

Wouldn't it make sense that if a bat fails a compression test, then they would pop off the endcap and visually inspect the inside?

 

[Jordan9215]

This site will give you a little education on bat shaving.

Unfortunately with some people that shave bats, they've become very good at it and the only way to know for sure is to swing the bat (you can usually tell immediately) or remove the encap for an internal inspection. However, a visual inspection is a good way to find some basic red flags that would be an indication that the bat may have been altered or shaved. Endcap separation for one. Most endcaps will not separate. (I said most, some will. I think Combats maybe.) Also if the bat feels way too light for the sticker weight, that's a red flag. A visual inspection is just a good way to let everyone know that you're making an effort to weed out altered bats, as well as remove some of the easy targets, ie poorly altered bats.

From a league standpoint, probably the best thing they can do is a compression test on the bats and if it fails then the bat is not allowed.

 

[Ben_Johnson41]

I'm really unfamiliar with the whole shaving process. But, a visual inspection wouldn't reveal shaving, would it? I assumed people shave the insides of the bat.

Wouldn't it make sense that if a bat fails a compression test, then they would pop off the endcap and visually inspect the inside?

No, and no.

If it fails the compression test they should send it off to the manufacturer for inspection if they suspect it to be altered. Otherwise, just not allow the bat in the park during games. A league or tournament director should never take it upon themselves to attempt to see the inside of your bat seeing as how they can not "legally" fix it when they determine it isn't altered.

Also, like stated above, a failed compression test is in no way a sign that the bat is altered. Older composites that are fully broken in will not pass. Many new bats fail right out of the wrapper, and plenty of shaved bats get passed every day. I have seen hotter bats make it onto the field than some that have failed.

 

[thaynes]

Compression tests do not prove its shaved. My buddys flex would fail probably and its not shaved. All a compression test does is see if the bat is fit for play....and that only works if the tester actually knows how to test it properly. You should he careful assuming its shaved just because it failed. Thats a good way to piss someone off and potentially escalate things further

 

[ImminentDanger]

Actually, you are wrong, hate to burst your bubble.

Actually, you should learn to read more carefully....

Your assumptions that every bat, tested in the exact same relative spot, produces some direct corrolary to excessive performance (ie., identifies a shaved bat) represents another current societal failure where everyone is guilty until proven innocent...

%%%

 

[PPC#12]

Only one way to find out. Look inside!! Take the end cap off or cut that f***** in half. Compression tests can't tell you if it's shaved or not and people that think you can weigh a bat to tell are just stupid.

 

[wink]

Not to beat a dead horse. BUT what most are saying is very true. Just because a bat failed compression does NOT mean it is shaved.
I can give you the best example you will ever hear!!
I have a RUSH98. Bought it about 5 years ago. Had about 200 hits on it or so.
It has been compression tested for the last 4 years. And the last 2 years it has been tested every season at one park so 3 times a year the last 2 years, as I don't use it in the winter.
1st test about 4 years ago way way outside of the pink
Same for the next several tests. Even played a tourney up in OH and it passed just fine up there about 2 years ago.
Then 2 springs ago it was about 1500psi
2 summers ago a little under 1500psi
last fall just over 1400psi
this spring failed.
then this summer they allowed a little lower psi and it barely passed
a week ago it failed even with the lowered allowed psi. I think it was around 1100 or 1200psi

Pretty cool to watch the break in process and track the compression.

 

[GOING 4 THIRD]

Pfft not me

If that dude was me, i'd have flipped out, ran to the jeep, got the battery powered sawzall and sawed that stick open, delaying the game and all, right there on the pitchers mound and clear that air right then and there. Say what you want as long as you aint saying shaved. Not hearing that lol.

 

[Ben_Johnson41]

If that dude was me, i'd have flipped out, ran to the jeep, got the battery powered sawzall and sawed that stick open, delaying the game and all, right there on the pitchers mound and clear that air right then and there. Say what you want as long as you aint saying shaved. Not hearing that lol.

Cool story bro.

 

[PPC#12]

I got one for you. About a month ago in LEAGUE a guy threw a fit after they lost that one of our bats was shaved. (A pretty beat up spec one) Our "coach" who owns the bat said buy it from me $250 and you can swing it since it shaved. Doesn't the guy actually go in his bag pull out $250 from his wallet like it was nothing. Threw it at him, picked up the bat and proceeded to slam it off a wooden block boarder of a flower bed trying to break it. It didn't break. When he was done he threw it on the ground an left. Everything calmed down then and the director took it. We begged to let us cut it open right there but technically he paid for it and they said it woulnt be right if we cut it now. And here's the best part. First swing he took it bounced back and busted his face open above his eyebrow and he ended up having to get 7 stitches and still hasn't gotten the bat back from the director yet.

 

[tommyd]

Sorry if I implied that I knew that bat was shaved. Didn't know it. Guess I assumed it, but it didn't really bother me. IF it's shaved, then I can't believe the guy would bring it to coed.

But now I'm kind of feeling sorry for the guy. I thought it was bull**** that he got kicked out. So, are we saying that just the process of taking the endcap off makes the bat illegal? If not, why can't they just compression test it and if it comes back not within specs, the director could ask the batter if they would allow them to pull end cap and check for shaving? At least this is better than just assuming the guy was up to no good and suspending him.

 

[PPC#12]

Because once you take off the end cap you can't use it anymore. Take off an end cap and re apply it yourself and your bat is now considered altered...

 

[Hambo]

If not, why can't they just compression test it and if it comes back not within specs, the director could ask the batter if they would allow them to pull end cap and check for shaving? At least this is better than just assuming the guy was up to no good and suspending him.

You're assuming that it is simple to pop an end cap off a bat and then just fit it back into place. This is not the case at all. A lot of people end up breaking the end caps or damaging the bat in the attempt to get them off.

If the bat fails... it should be tossed. It shouldn't be assumed that it's shaved and someone shouldn't be suspended unless there is undeniable evidence that the bat was tampered with. Don't agree with the route your LD took in that situation.

Was the guy a repeat offender?

 

[tommyd]

If the bat fails... it should be tossed. It shouldn't be assumed that it's shaved and someone shouldn't be suspended unless there is undeniable evidence that the bat was tampered with. Don't agree with the route your LD took in that situation.

Was the guy a repeat offender?

I completely agree. It's like they expect us to be able to compression test our own bats before every game.

Not sure if the guy was a repeat offender. I got the impression that this was standard practice now. But, I'm not sure on that.

 

[Jordan9215]

Sorry if I implied that I knew that bat was shaved. Didn't know it. Guess I assumed it, but it didn't really bother me. IF it's shaved, then I can't believe the guy would bring it to coed.

But now I'm kind of feeling sorry for the guy. I thought it was bull**** that he got kicked out. So, are we saying that just the process of taking the endcap off makes the bat illegal? If not, why can't they just compression test it and if it comes back not within specs, the director could ask the batter if they would allow them to pull end cap and check for shaving? At least this is better than just assuming the guy was up to no good and suspending him.

Don't ever be surprised where you'll run in to people using altered bats. I play against guys who use them in men's league and coed. (We don't care because they don't hit middle.) They're everywhere. I play against a coach who supplies three of four for his coed team.

The way your league should handle the situation is: if they feel a bat may be altered (or as their policy states, when someone hits the middle) they should take the bat and perform a compression test on the bat. They should rotate the bat and do another compression test. (so you're testing more than one side.) If the bat passes, then drop the argument. If the bat fails then the bat is no longer allowed to be used. That's it.

Now if they hit the pitcher in the face on a batted ball and the bat fails compression test, then they should probably seek professional inspection to determine if the bat is actually altered or if it's just broken in. (Prob send it to the manufacturer.)

Once the endcap has been removed for any reason, then it is (per the rules) altered. Do not remove your endcap.

The guy you're referring to needs to speak with your LD. He should not be kicked out, his bat should just no longer be allowed. That's pretty crappy on their part.

 

[Ben_Johnson41]

So, are we saying that just the process of taking the endcap off makes the bat illegal? If not, why can't they just compression test it and if it comes back not within specs, the director could ask the batter if they would allow them to pull end cap and check for shaving? At least this is better than just assuming the guy was up to no good and suspending him.

Yes, it makes the bat illegal and is considered altered. It also technically voids any warranty that may still be on the bat. The manufacturers are the only ones intended to be inside the equipment "legally." Also, like stated above, the endcaps don't just pop off like the cap on a soda bottle...they were not made for easy access (although not extremely difficult), or shaving would be even more of a problem than it already is.

Bottom line, your league director is a dumbass and so is everyone who assumes the guy is a dirty player just based on his bat failing a compression test which is a very flawed process of determining how "hot" a bat is.

 

[RLH4L]

Your league most likely isn't necessarily checking for shaved bats, but has compression standards for bats that can be used. I play in a league that requires at least 230 compression on all bats. To say that a bat is shaved just because it has low compression is just dumb. I guarantee my Izzy Psycho, unaltered, wouldn't come close.

 

[rhound50]

If I got suspended for hitting a soft ground ball at the pitcher and my bat failing compression without being sent to the manufacturer I'd be pissed. Nothing like ruining someones reputation without proof. Bat testers are pretty close to useless in my experiance. Even at E worlds this year, they tested all bats but bats that I know for a fact are shaved passed and I've seen a number of stock bats fail.

 

[Gadawgs29]

Never be surprised to see a shaved bat anywhere you go. They're out there more than you think. Even seen women swinging shaved FP sticks in coed. Some people will do anything to win.

worst teams ever are church leaguers. just about everyone is shaved they will fight and argue nonstop then justify it at end with a prayer. not saying all church teams/league r like it but they def are the worst I have seen. coed I've seen guys brag about it like its really that tough to play in coed with a legit bat

 

[rhound50]

Here I'm more surprised when I see stock bats than shavers, you get used to playing against nothing but dirty bats then all of a sudden the ball comes off really slow and you are like WTF.

 

[AJ22]

Actually, you are wrong, hate to burst your bubble.

ASA Compression testing and standards has been conducted, and continues to be conducted by Washington State University with specific equipment designed for testing ball speed, flight, compression, etc. every year. I is why the 2013 stamp was developed, it is why bats who fail compression on average no longer fit within the thresholds. That is why an older composite bat fails, just like a shaved bat.

I assume that the same is done by NSA and U-trip.

These decisions are not made ina vacuum by some hick somewhere. Is it fool proof, no, but nothing is. Better to err on the side of caution. It only softball for crying out loud.

Actually, you are wrong (hate to burst your bubble).


OG bats fail just like newer current bats. Heck, I've seen plenty of bats where the wrapper was taking off right before a compression test and failed. Heck, we went to Nationals with 4 NIW bats in early Sept. Out of the 4 bats, 3 bats failed ... (2 COMbat Dirty's and a Easton L4). And to add, I seen 6 or so USSSA bats pass! After making a point that there was no ASA stamps on these USSSA bats was when they were not allowed.

A bat that fails compression does not make a bat shaved or altered.






Been awhile, but:

Not every illegal bat is shaved .. not every unaltered bat is legal.