Hitting up the Middle

[Jerrshoe]

over simplify much??? You generalizing a tad bit too much.

99% of the people that pitch aren't scared or they wouldn't be pitching.(not count people forced to pitch because of circumstances). I'm so tired of the "pitcher has a glove, blah blah blah" argument. It's a lot harder to catch a ball from 50-60' away than it is from a regular position. How many 3B or 1B play even with the bag??? I'll wait... Let alone a 2b, that in all likelihood, is playing in RF. smh
I pitched because I knew how to throw a knuckleball. I played 3rd and I did play even with the bag, so pitching didn't scare me. But that was modified, so it was a little different.
I don't agree with the pitchers that get pissed about middle shots, either. Having said that, there are aholes that like to hit middle as an intimidation factor. Hitting middle is fine. I'm not going to make an out cuz I don't want to hit an outside pitch up the middle. I don't, as a general rule, hit middle, however. If there is a guy that hits middle all the time, then he might get walked sometimes, just to piss him off. Every team has guys that have no problem shooting middle to send a message. That's when things can get out of hand.

Everyone that hits middle is not a jerk, but there are jerks that hit middle.

I'm not saying defending the middle is easy.....it's actually quite difficult. If a person can't play the position, then play somewhere else. Maybe I'm oversimplifying....or maybe it's actually that simple. This is a game. The objective is to win the game. If a pitcher snaps off two or three guys, they stop hitting middle. If he doesn't, it becomes apparent that middle is a good place to hit a ball.

The same applies to any other position. If there is a 300lb centerfielder trying to run a 3 man outfield, I'm hitting that all day. I don't care if he pulls a hamstring trying to run down a line drive. That's not on my conscience, it's on the coach that put his fat ass there in the first place.

Bottom line here is that you should play the position at the level you can safely play. If it's EE rec league...then that is what a player can safely play. Don't get pissed that someone intentionally hits the ball toward a weak spot and the fielder isn't capable of making the play. It's absolutely counterproductive for a batter to be concerned about that.

 

[etnstudios]

3 times in a row is pretty good aim, dude musta been mouthing off. What teams/locale was this? Wanna see if I was there ha

this is when me and Chris both still lived around Houston. pitcher was 350+ and super mouthy. we don't ever start the war but we had guys that could finish. the third member is also on this board lol. everything was below the knees. and i was pitching for us

 

[Country469]

I'd love that one too if possible

 

[Hawk-]

I'll say when I was younger, I was a douche and hit at pitchers. But as I have matured I might still smoke one through the middle but it's not to hurt anyone. You field the position and I won't aim at your head.

 

[Joker]

I'm not saying defending the middle is easy.....it's actually quite difficult. If a person can't play the position, then play somewhere else. Maybe I'm oversimplifying....or maybe it's actually that simple. This is a game. The objective is to win the game. If a pitcher snaps off two or three guys, they stop hitting middle. If he doesn't, it becomes apparent that middle is a good place to hit a ball.

The same applies to any other position. If there is a 300lb centerfielder trying to run a 3 man outfield, I'm hitting that all day. I don't care if he pulls a hamstring trying to run down a line drive. That's not on my conscience, it's on the coach that put his fat ass there in the first place.

Bottom line here is that you should play the position at the level you can safely play. If it's EE rec league...then that is what a player can safely play. Don't get pissed that someone intentionally hits the ball toward a weak spot and the fielder isn't capable of making the play. It's absolutely counterproductive for a batter to be concerned about that.

except a 300lb CFer isn't going to need facial reconstitution surgery if the ball is hit at him. terrible analogy

 

[blakcherry329]

I'm not saying defending the middle is easy.....it's actually quite difficult. If a person can't play the position, then play somewhere else. Maybe I'm oversimplifying....or maybe it's actually that simple. This is a game. The objective is to win the game. If a pitcher snaps off two or three guys, they stop hitting middle. If he doesn't, it becomes apparent that middle is a good place to hit a ball.

The same applies to any other position. If there is a 300lb centerfielder trying to run a 3 man outfield, I'm hitting that all day. I don't care if he pulls a hamstring trying to run down a line drive. That's not on my conscience, it's on the coach that put his fat ass there in the first place.

Bottom line here is that you should play the position at the level you can safely play. If it's EE rec league...then that is what a player can safely play. Don't get pissed that someone intentionally hits the ball toward a weak spot and the fielder isn't capable of making the play. It's absolutely counterproductive for a batter to be concerned about that.

Why would anyone stop hitting middle if the pitcher catches a few? If he's able to catch it, you didn't hit it where you needed to hit it, that's all. But I digress...

You analogy doesn't make sense because you aren't hitting at him, you're still trying to hit the gaps. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.
There is no safe level, as a pitcher. Some levels are more dangerous than others, but all are dangerous.

 

[Jerrshoe]

Ok...fair points...analogy wasn't well thought out.

Bottom line here is if you're worried you're going to get hurt, play another position or choose another sport. Golf is much less dangerous.

 

[jbo911]

Exactly, and to a certain extent that will always be true. It's just a matter of what degree.

Ll pitchers started getting hurt and they changed the game. Slowpitch pitchers get hurt and utrip goes to an even more dangerous ball. It just makes no sense.

 

[jbo911]

And if all we wanted was the current homerun situation why not just move the outfield fence in to about 260. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That's basically where the game is compared to singlewalls, and maybe even the doublewall days.

 

[etnstudios]

i hit ugly-finders on the golf course too

 

[Muscles220]

And if all we wanted was the current homerun situation why not just move the outfield fence in to about 260. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That's basically where the game is compared to singlewalls, and maybe even the doublewall days.

I honestly think that with single-walls and a 260' fence we would have fewer HR's than we do today with comps and a 300' fence...well maybe 270'. I play on a 270' field with an 8' fence sometimes, and it can be downright difficult to keep them in, even for guys that almost never hit them out of a 300' field. But back with double-walls and U-trip Distance balls, while plenty got hit out, there were a lot fewer accidental HR's and there were at least some people that couldn't hit one out, even on that field. Dial that back to single-walls, and I bet you would see fewer HR's at the lower and middle levels. Not only is exit velocity down, but the guys that take very little BP and have poor mechanics will rarely find the sweet spot.

Of course that will never happen on a large scale. Composite materials are cheaper than high end aluminum or titanium alloys, so margins are better. On top of that, composites eventually break, even in the hands of smaller guys, but they also inevitably last at least a little while even when used by a masher. With aluminum, an average guy might never break a bat, and a really hard hitter might break one on the first swing. Those on the edge might make it all summer only flatten a bat in the first game under 55 degrees. Composites are probably much better for manufactures as warranties go for the 99% of honest customers.

 

[blakcherry329]

Ok...fair points...analogy wasn't well thought out.

Bottom line here is if you're worried you're going to get hurt, play another position or choose another sport. Golf is much less dangerous.

Not worried I'm going to get hurt. I just know, at some point, it will happen. It's an occupational hazard. Like football, boxing, mma, etc. You know the risks and chose to do it anyway. Still doesn't mean I'm scared because I'm concerned about getting hit. You obviously don't pitch(OF, I bet), so you're making incorrect assumptions.

 

[Jerrshoe]

Not worried I'm going to get hurt. I just know, at some point, it will happen. It's an occupational hazard. Like football, boxing, mma, etc. You know the risks and chose to do it anyway. Still doesn't mean I'm scared because I'm concerned about getting hit. You obviously don't pitch(OF, I bet), so you're making incorrect assumptions.

Well, going to have to agree to disagree I guess.

I don't pitch. If you're wondering why that is the answer is simple. I don't want to get hurt. So rather than complain that guys play the game and hit middle, I've simply chosen to play elsewhere and leave the middle to guys that can defend it....just like anybody should that is worried that they can't handle it.

 

[Muscles220]

Well, going to have to agree to disagree I guess.

I don't pitch. If you're wondering why that is the answer is simple. I don't want to get hurt. So rather than complain that guys play the game and hit middle, I've simply chosen to play elsewhere and leave the middle to guys that can defend it....just like anybody should that is worried that they can't handle it.

Translation : I don't pitch because I'm afraid to, so I let other people do it...and then I hit at them.

 

[scrub]

most efficient out in softball is a 95+ mph line drive right back to the pitchers chest, errbody know dat. you'd think pitchers would thank hitters for making their job so easy like do I need to catch it for you too smh some people

 

[blakcherry329]

most efficient out in softball is a 95+ mph line drive right back to the pitchers chest, errbody know dat. you'd think pitchers would thank hitters for making their job so easy like do I need to catch it for you too smh some people

wow. smh. another non-pitcher i give up.

 

[Hiltz]

Translation : I don't pitch because I'm afraid to, so I let other people do it...and then I hit at them.

Why are right-fielders always the mouthiest players on the team?

 

[huntaholic21]

Well, going to have to agree to disagree I guess.

I don't pitch. If you're wondering why that is the answer is simple. I don't want to get hurt. So rather than complain that guys play the game and hit middle, I've simply chosen to play elsewhere and leave the middle to guys that can defend it....just like anybody should that is worried that they can't handle it.

This mentality is bs. You better be apologizing to YOUR teams pitcher every time you hit one back up the middle.

 

[Muscles220]

Why are right-fielders always the mouthiest players on the team?

I pitch, catch and play outfield depending on what we need that night. I'm not sure why you would assume right field.

 

[Muscles220]

most efficient out in softball is a 95+ mph line drive right back to the pitchers chest, errbody know dat. you'd think pitchers would thank hitters for making their job so easy like do I need to catch it for you too smh some people

95mph yes. The plus starts getting into questionable territory. ASA set the standard at 98mph by taking the average reaction time plus the time required to move the glove up to the face. So for an average guy he can theoretically just barely prevent death by softball. The very fact that something is average requires that many things fall below it...somewhere around half. So there are quite a few pitchers out there that would get hit in the face with a ball coming at 98mph. On top of that, 98mph is just the speed that the ball leaves the bat in the test. The test is based on the average bat speed of A and B players. It's not based on a maximum, and there are plenty of red players out there can beat the average bat speed used. There are plenty more A and B players who can(again, around half). It's entirely possible for softballs to come off of a bat at over 100mph, leaving even the quickest pitchers in the danger zone. Maybe 99% of middle shots don't get to that level because trying to go middle takes a little off your swing, or you don't hit it perfectly, or it misses the guy's face, but that uncatchable hit happens sometimes. It's really easy for an outfielder to blame the pitcher and say he shouldn't have been playing there etc. etc. but pitchers have been killed. When you top that off with the fact that one of the middle hitters in this thread admitted that he won't pitch because he knows he couldn't react fast enough it's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Jerrshoe]

Translation : I don't pitch because I'm afraid to, so I let other people do it...and then I hit at them.

No need to translate when the statement is clear as it stands. If you can't field middle....don't play middle...and I personally can't field middle anymore. If you want to ***** and moan about people hitting the ball hard at you, then play another position. Why is this complicated? The goal of a hitter is to get on base...unfortunately pitching is dangerous. If you can't field your position when the other team is playing within the rules, that's a YOU problem. Stop whining and trying to blame other factors and accept that you're just not that good anymore. That's what I did.

If someone is using a shaved bat, frozen ball, etc that's different. That's cheating. If the other team is playing within the rules and you just don't like the ball whizzing past your face, then stop making the choice to play that position and find someone who can snap it off. The game doesn't have to adapt to you...you need to adapt as your skill level permits. This sounds to me to be more about the game passing guys by and their ego not being able to accept it.

You guys can continue to act like you have some kind of high ground because you are still trying to pitch, but I used to pitch and stopped because I couldn't compete at the level I wanted to play...and remain on the rubber. Either play down or change positions. It's ridiculous to blame the batter for your inability to continue fielding your positions.

 

[Jerrshoe]

95mph yes. The plus starts getting into questionable territory. ASA set the standard at 98mph by taking the average reaction time plus the time required to move the glove up to the face. So for an average guy he can theoretically just barely prevent death by softball. The very fact that something is average requires that many things fall below it...somewhere around half. So there are quite a few pitchers out there that would get hit in the face with a ball coming at 98mph. On top of that, 98mph is just the speed that the ball leaves the bat in the test. The test is based on the average bat speed of A and B players. It's not based on a maximum, and there are plenty of red players out there can beat the average bat speed used. There are plenty more A and B players who can(again, around half). It's entirely possible for softballs to come off of a bat at over 100mph, leaving even the quickest pitchers in the danger zone. Maybe 99% of middle shots don't get to that level because trying to go middle takes a little off your swing, or you don't hit it perfectly, or it misses the guy's face, but that uncatchable hit happens sometimes. It's really easy for an outfielder to blame the pitcher and say he shouldn't have been playing there etc. etc. but pitchers have been killed. When you top that off with the fact that one of the middle hitters in this thread admitted that he won't pitch because he knows he couldn't react fast enough it's pretty ridiculous.

Who is forcing you to play with 100mph bats? There are wooden bat leagues, aluminum bat leagues, etc. This whole argument we are having is mind boggling to me. If you are uncomfortable playing with the equipment allowed in a particular sanction, then simply choose to play in a different sanction with rules that are more in line with slower batted ball speeds.

It just seems like some of you guys want to play in leagues with the hot bats and hot balls, but don't like it when someone hits the ball harder than you think they should and you aren't able to defend yourself. At what point do we acknowledge that pitchers choose to pitch and players chose to play with 100mph bats and there is a risk associated with that? If a person doesn't like the risk.....then don't put yourself in that position!

 

[blakcherry329]

Nothing is high percentage coming back at you that fast. Catchable? Maybe. Sure thing? I don't think so.

 

[EdFred]

I think once one of you guys that hit middle send someone to the hospital your attitude might change a little on it. Probably not for some of you, it will just be another thing to brag about, but one can hope.

This is a *game* and shouldn't require 'armoring up' but I also understand the importance of a $5 shirt or a plastic trophy makes or breaks some of your lives.

 

[blakcherry329]

Who is forcing you to play with 100mph bats? There are wooden bat leagues, aluminum bat leagues, etc. This whole argument we are having is mind boggling to me. If you are uncomfortable playing with the equipment allowed in a particular sanction, then simply choose to play in a different sanction with rules that are more in line with slower batted ball speeds.

It just seems like some of you guys want to play in leagues with the hot bats and hot balls, but don't like it when someone hits the ball harder than you think they should and you aren't able to defend yourself. At what point do we acknowledge that pitchers choose to pitch and players chose to play with 100mph bats and there is a risk associated with that? If a person doesn't like the risk.....then don't put yourself in that position!

You, sir, have mastered the art of "over simplification".

Wood bat and single wall leagues are the exception, not the rule. They are few and far between, at least in the Tri-state area(NY, NJ, and CT). I can't really speak for other areas. But judging by the amount of bats around, I would say it's like that all over.

While there are some whiny pitchers that complain about any ball hit between SS and 2B, again, this is not the norm. Most pitchers just pitch, even though they know the risks, and don't complain. However, if you know someone is trying to intimidate/hurt you, I can see where someone might get pissed. What if you're playing fast pitch and a pitcher throws at you? Hmmmmmm? You might get a little upset, correct? Same principle.

I question the sanity of the pitchers in those "any bat, any ball" leagues, myself. lol

 

[Muscles220]

Who is forcing you to play with 100mph bats? There are wooden bat leagues, aluminum bat leagues, etc. This whole argument we are having is mind boggling to me. If you are uncomfortable playing with the equipment allowed in a particular sanction, then simply choose to play in a different sanction with rules that are more in line with slower batted ball speeds.

It just seems like some of you guys want to play in leagues with the hot bats and hot balls, but don't like it when someone hits the ball harder than you think they should and you aren't able to defend yourself. At what point do we acknowledge that pitchers choose to pitch and players chose to play with 100mph bats and there is a risk associated with that? If a person doesn't like the risk.....then don't put yourself in that position!

They're not 100mph bats. A 98mph bat is only a 98mph bat when swung at the test velocity, hitting the ball used in the test at 68 degrees. If you swing the bat faster than the test speed, the ball will come off at more than 98mph. If it's cooler than 68 degrees outside, the ball will come off at more than 98mph. What about stock bats that fail compression testing? Not every league compression tests every bat every week.

 

[Dars]

I broke my pitchers kneecap on a line drive right back at him. First practice with a new team and I take our pitcher out for the year in 10 swings. That is why I don't hit middle.

 

[Muscles220]

I'm not convinced that aging pitchers are even getting slower. A little over 20yrs ago all we had were single-walls. According to the Kettering study, the very best of them tested about 95mph. Most, even the pretty good ones, tested below that. Double-walls increased that substantially and of course composites caused the developement of the BPF test, and subsequently ASA 2000 followed by the 98mph test of ASA 2004. Even hitting 98mph double-walls the sweet spot is small, and reaching that 98mph requires a good hard hit. Today with composites enlarging the sweet spot dramatically, and using discs and non-linear bats you end up being able to get close to 98mph without hitting anywhere near perfectly. Compound that with HR limits and the pitcher is getting ten times as many HARD hits up the middle as he was in the past. Ditch the HR limits, give everyone single-walls and SB12's in the summer and I might just take my mask off. The little guys won't be all that dangerous and the big guys will swing for the fence because they can, and it will help the team more than a single. The game has changed dramatically due to these hero making bats, and the mound has not moved, nor have the rules changed significantly. The U-trip pitcher can at least step back a little now.

 

[Country469]

Yet when ASA was testing batted ball speeds they found that most guys don't see exit speeds above 85 mph

 

[Country469]

The exit speeds from the average hitter have no gone up dramatically, what has changed is the forgiveness and sweetspot sizes. Gas is hit more regularly now, but the exit speeds for your average E player have not gone up dramatically.