Any How much of the plate does the ball have to cross??

[baldgriff]

So I have been having an ongoing discussion about the strike zone with some other umpire friends. At any rate I am curious to know how you guys define a strike. The questions are:

1) How do you define a ball crossing the plate?

2) How much of the ball has to cross the plate?


Just curious what all of your thoughts are on this.

 

[eddieq]

By the rulebook, of course

Really, any part of the ball over any part of the plate. Of course in the vertical zone, too, as defined by the rulebook and depending on what you're playing (SP/FP).

ETA: Balls and strikes are 100% judgement of the plate umpire (when no mat is in use). We have the definitions and strive to make the right decision based on observation of the pitch. Sometimes you'll get the corners, sometimes you won't.

 

[baldgriff]

What is considered crossing the plate though - where would the ball have to land to be considered crossing?

 

[eddieq]

What is considered crossing the plate though - where would the ball have to land to be considered crossing?

Ahhhh, slow pitch. I should have known that

It doesn't matter one bit where the ball lands (except in seniors where they use a mat).

The strike zone is the space over any part of home plate when the batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate between the batter's back shoulder and front knee.

Note the definition is "when the batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate", that means that for those guys who set up way in the back of the box, the umpire has to judge that the ball was in that vertical zone (front knee/back shoulder) had the batter been up adjacent to the plate.

Unless a mat is in use, it NEVER matters where it lands.

 

[baldgriff]

So you are one vote for - any yellow over any white (meeting the batter related requirements) - Thanks. I do apologize that I didnt specify slow pitch.

I am interested to hear from others.

 

[Sappho4]

I'd be surprised if you get a different answer from what eddieq gave you from the majority of the umpires on here. I've been consistently impressed by the level of umpires (at least knowledge-wise, can't judge much else from a board) on here. What he's given you is the proper strike zone. Where the ball land has zero bearing on a ball or a strike unless a mat is in use.

 

[rhound50]

So you are one vote for - any yellow over any white (meeting the batter related requirements) - Thanks. I do apologize that I didnt specify slow pitch.

I am interested to hear from others.

You don't need any other opinions, what Eddie said is correct.

 

[shotcaller]

ball lands

and the ball can come diagonally across the plate so it doesnt have to be caught or land behind it,Ex..a pitcher who leans way out to the side and flips the ball it will pass diagonally thru the zone across the plate and mayy land in the opposite batters box.I NEVER care where the ball lands or is caught uness the ctahcer may have caught the ball above the plate and it could have touched the plate if it wasnt caught.You dont know how many times batters have pointed out where the ball landed

 

[baldgriff]

and the ball can come diagonally across the plate so it doesnt have to be caught or land behind it,Ex..a pitcher who leans way out to the side and flips the ball it will pass diagonally thru the zone across the plate and mayy land in the opposite batters box.I NEVER care where the ball lands or is caught uness the ctahcer may have caught the ball above the plate and it could have touched the plate if it wasnt caught.You dont know how many times batters have pointed out where the ball landed

Does it have to clear any part of the back part of the plate?

 

[NCASAUmp]

About . much

 

[eddieq]

Does it have to clear any part of the back part of the plate?

Well, if it hits the plate, it's a ball. Doesn't matter if it actually dropped through the strike zone or not.

Like NCASAUmp said, just has to clear by a gnat's whisker.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

So you are one vote for - any yellow over any white (meeting the batter related requirements) - Thanks. I do apologize that I didnt specify slow pitch.

I am interested to hear from others.

If one millimeter crosses over one millimeter of the plate in the defined strike zone.....it is a strike.

Eddie absolutely gave the definition of a strike for slow pitch ASA.


Joel

 

[gate2009]

Does it have to clear any part of the back part of the plate?

Do you mean pitch clips front corner of plate? Is that a strike?

Or does the ball need to pass the entire plate?

 

[SevenBizzos]

Oh boy. Let's not turn this into a "black part of the plate?" thread. Please.

.

 

[dttruax]

You mean when an ump says the pitch is a ball because it's "deep" is wrong?

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

That being said..........Have I ever missed a close ball or strike call? Absolutely........maybe one or two in a FP game. I would say less in slow pitch.

Have I ever had a gross miss on a ball or strike call........I can think of a few.........not many.....but it does happen.

Using my handy dandy phone calculator......I have seen probably close to 80 to 90 thousand pitches.........

I can only recollect a handful of gross misses during that time. I knew em' the second I called em' though........One on a good lady friend in a Women's FP game.....needless to say.....she was not very happy with me....... It was like my arm went up and called strike......when my brain was thinking ball.......

The others either in youth ball where I got surprised or by a known pitcher who fooled me.

It happens.........

Joel

 

[eddieq]

It was like my arm went up and called strike......when my brain was thinking ball.......
Joel

You sound like me. Pitch came right down the middle at the belt. I verbalized "BALL" and stood up and gave the hammer

Then everyone looked at me, my partner included and started the laugh. I just said, "The pitch was a strike. Sorry." Got no argument from either side, but at least we got a good laugh.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

You sound like me. Pitch came right down the middle at the belt. I verbalized "BALL" and stood up and gave the hammer

Then everyone looked at me, my partner included and started the laugh. I just said, "The pitch was a strike. Sorry." Got no argument from either side, but at least we got a good laugh.

**** happens sometimes.......with me it is almost always with a good FP pitcher that I know.......and she throws some crazy ass pitch I have never seen before.........

Joel


On a side note.....my oldest daughter started in a five team women's FP league a couple of weeks ago. Most of the women are from Harris, Galveston, Brazoria and Fort Bend Counties here in Tx. I probably umpired 75% or greater when they were growing up or in HS. I will try and get to a game and get some photos. I have never called at this particular complex....but thought about showing up and seeing the reaction of these young women if I showed up in my gear.......lol

 

[baldgriff]

Do you mean pitch clips front corner of plate? Is that a strike?

Or does the ball need to pass the entire plate?

You are touching on what we discuss yes.....

If the pitch crosses the front corner is it sufficient. One of my friends says it has to clear the back corner - another friend says it only has to catch the front corner....

 

[gate2009]

You are touching on what we discuss yes.....

If the pitch crosses the front corner is it sufficient. One of my friends says it has to clear the back corner - another friend says it only has to catch the front corner....

For ASA-- Rule 1 The Definitions page 30 in participant manual

Strike Zone: That space over any part of home plate, when a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, between the batter's

B. (Slow Pitch) Back shoulder and the front knee

..one friend is wrong...I hope you are not that friend.

 

[NCASAUmp]

You are touching on what we discuss yes.....

If the pitch crosses the front corner is it sufficient. One of my friends says it has to clear the back corner - another friend says it only has to catch the front corner....

If the pitch crosses ANY corner, it's sufficient. Doesn't matter if it's the front corner or the back.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

In my early years in BB and FP softball.....once you master the low part of the plate.........you almost have the strike zone mastered.

Joel

 

[IrishBlue]

You sound like me. Pitch came right down the middle at the belt. I verbalized "BALL" and stood up and gave the hammer

Then everyone looked at me, my partner included and started the laugh. I just said, "The pitch was a strike. Sorry." Got no argument from either side, but at least we got a good laugh.

Over here that earns you a beer fine for your crew

Regarding the op, any portion of the ball over any portion of the plate, through the strike zone of the natural batting stance of the batter.

Please don't turn this into a "black part of the plate" thread because we have no dedicated diamonds here so we just drop the plate on a patch of grass and set up from there and it would stun you the amount of people who whine and moan about the black part of the plate!

 

[RDD15]

Plenty of correct answers here. The ball does not have to cross over the back of the plate. If any part of the ball passes over any part of the plate between the front knee and back shoulder in height, it is a strike. No more discussion needed.

 

[baldgriff]

I am in full agreement with the opinions of those here on the board. However, my friend insists that in order to establish a ball has crossed through the strike zone it must clear the back corner of the plate. Its particularly frustrating also as I am a pitcher and I know I am losing the outside of the plate when I pitch to him....

 

[Illegal pitcher]

I am in full agreement with the opinions of those here on the board. However, my friend insists that in order to establish a ball has crossed through the strike zone it must clear the back corner of the plate. Its particularly frustrating also as I am a pitcher and I know I am losing the outside of the plate when I pitch to him....

Some friend!

Maybe you can print this out for him...

STRIKE ZONE: That space over any part of home plate, when a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, between the batter’s,
A. (Fast Pitch) Arm pits and the top of the knees.
B. (Slow Pitch) Back shoulder and the front knee.
C. (Seniors Slow Pitch): A rectangle 17” x 34” which includes the plate
and the plate extension (mat). Any legally pitch ball not struck at that
lands on any part of the plate or mat will be ruled a strike. The shoulder
to the knee strike zone has been eliminated.

 

[eddieq]

I am in full agreement with the opinions of those here on the board. However, my friend insists that in order to establish a ball has crossed through the strike zone it must clear the back corner of the plate. Its particularly frustrating also as I am a pitcher and I know I am losing the outside of the plate when I pitch to him....

In a way, he's right, as any ball that contacts the plate in slow pitch is called a ball. It may have passed through the strike zone otherwise, but it it doesn't "clear" the plate and lands on it (any part of the ball touches any part of the plate), it's a ball.

Is that the source of your confusion?

 

[pob14]

I once called under a rule set - I believe it was under the Umpire's Protective Association in Chicago - that required that the ball clear the tip of the plate. There was even a little diagram in the book, showing the "triangles" formed by the spaces next to the tip of the plate, and specifically saying that balls that landed there could not be strikes. (This was 16", and in the late 1970s - I can't tell from their website if they even publish a rule book any more.)

But anyway, that's not the rule in any other rule set I've ever encountered.

 

[baldgriff]

In a way, he's right, as any ball that contacts the plate in slow pitch is called a ball. It may have passed through the strike zone otherwise, but it it doesn't "clear" the plate and lands on it (any part of the ball touches any part of the plate), it's a ball.

Is that the source of your confusion?

Nope - this is not the source of the confusion - Unfortunately. We both agree that any ball hitting the plate is a ball. I will call a pitch that only crosses the front portion of the plate. He has stated that the ball in order to come through the strike zone it must clear through the back of the plate.

Essentially he states the ball has to cross through the entire strike zone - not just any part of the zone.

 

[eddieq]

Essentially he states the ball has to cross through the entire strike zone - not just any part of the zone.

Yeah, he's wrong