Last night it was pretty windy and I was pitching. Runners on 1st and 2nd. Guy hits a pop up about 50 ft that would have landed just behind me with no wind. As it goes up, I realize it is going to tail back towards the catcher, so I don't move. She steps out from behind the plate almost half way to me. Then the ump calls "Infield Fly, unless it is foul". I let her attempt to field it (she completely misses it) and it shoots across the plate into foul territory... I realize that if it had been over foul territory that it would not have been an IF, but this ball was over fair territory and I easily could have caught it by just calling her off. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Infield Fly - "Unless it's foul"?????
- Thread starter Banero
- Start date
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
The answer can be found here: http://forums.softballfans.com/threads/infield-fly-rule.1091773/
Batter-runner should be hustling to first base. If anything happens, the same result (out, runner on 1st) should happen. Issue is people pop up and start walking to the dugout and open themselves up to a double play. No reason for a rule to protect laziness.
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
the IFF rule is to prevent the defense from getting a bush league double play. Someone who is pissed off that doesn't run to first on a pop up deserves to get doubled up when there's only one runner on. I've seen it happen a couple times.
FatBoy28
SBF is a cruel Mistress
Not necessarily the same result.
If the runner is young and fast while the batter-runner is old/fat/slow/all three I can impact succeeding plays by letting the ball drop and "swapping" runners.
Bush league double plays can still happen with runners on 2B or 2B and 3B.
RustyShakleford
Well-Known Member
Well the rule wasn't written for beer league softball douchebags
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
That happens in the major leagues. Earlier this year Kinsler had a lazy infield pop up hit at him he could have caught. But, it was hit by a slow runner and there was a speedy guy on first. He let it drop and got the fast guy off the bases. Still no double play though - which is all the IFF fly is there for (and I suppose a rare triple play).
The result was still the same. An out that should have been made, and a guy on first base. Just because it's a different person on the bag doesn't mean the result is different.
RustyShakleford
Well-Known Member
The counter to that is the defense is taking a risk by letting the ball bounce. It could take a weird hop or the fielder could miss it, resulting in no outs.
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
Yeah, if you have idiots for runners and coaches
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
If was a foul ball. IF must be fair.
Was there a question?
Think about it.
Runners on 1 and 2 MUST stay close to their bags. If the fielder let's it drop, a DP is relatively simple.
With a runner only on 1B, only he has to stay close. The batter/runner can and should move toward 1B. Even a fat, old, slow guy can get there on a jog. Trust me, I know this first hand.
I was catching one time, runner on 1B, less than 2 outs. Batter pops up 10' in front of the plate, turns in disgust and heads to the 3b side dugout. I couldn't help myself. I took a few steps out, let it hit and bounce right back to me. Easy DP. I could have made it an unassisted DP if I wanted to be a real ****
If the runner would have even jogged to 1B, I wouldn't have taken the chance of a bad hop. Since he didn't, I had nothing to lose(except my self respect). Even if I booted it badly, he still couldn't have made it to 1B
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NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Well, I've never heard it called that way, either. Usually, the umpire should say "Infield fly, if fair!" "Infield fly, unless it's foul" seems like a lot to try and get out.
Terrordome666
Addicted to Softballfans
I got burned last week by an ump that missed this one. Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a pop up down 3rd base line. Ump at 2nd base calls Infield Fly.... Thirdbaseman tries to catch the ball just in foul territory but drops it... home ump calls foul ball. I am thinking, ok, hitter gets another chance. 2nd base Ump calls time and has chat with home ump. Home ump turns around and says batter is out, infield fly rule! I go nuts. 2nd base ump tells me it doesn't matter that it was foul, once he called it, batter was out. I told him he was wrong and I would like an apology after he figures it out...
I have seen some whacky stuff happen that I can understand maybe an Ump would be oblivious to the actual rule... but this one is basic and they should have known better.
I did apologize to him after the game for yelling at him, even though I was right. Most of the Umps in our league are nice people and I hate when I end up going ballistic on them.
I have seen some whacky stuff happen that I can understand maybe an Ump would be oblivious to the actual rule... but this one is basic and they should have known better.
I did apologize to him after the game for yelling at him, even though I was right. Most of the Umps in our league are nice people and I hate when I end up going ballistic on them.
The good local umps will add "if fair" usually to the call.
The others, well you're lucky if they called IF Fly Rule in Effect or called it period. They don't even spot the scenarios to the rule.
That's when you have to try and get them acknowledging it before a play. We've been known to yell it out ourselves, sometimes umpy calls time (as if we are being disruptive)... Then realizes oh snap yes it is that scenario...
The others, well you're lucky if they called IF Fly Rule in Effect or called it period. They don't even spot the scenarios to the rule.
That's when you have to try and get them acknowledging it before a play. We've been known to yell it out ourselves, sometimes umpy calls time (as if we are being disruptive)... Then realizes oh snap yes it is that scenario...
Iceman6409
Active Member
The umpire correctly called infield fly if in fair territory in this situation. My question is did the catcher COMPLETELY miss it as you stated. In other words the ball never touched her or her glove? If it did not and the ball rolled into foul territory even though it landed fair then it is a foul ball. If she did somehow touch the ball in fair territory then it is game on
BretMan
Addicted to Softballfans
Yeah, they blew this one. The infield fly rule states that it must be a FAIR batted ball. Once it becomes foul, it’s just a plain old regular foul ball.
Adding “...if fair” to the infield fly call is recommended, but it’s just a courtesy to the teams. It doesn’t change the rule or the ruling. If an umpire doesn’t say that, and it becomes foul...still just a foul ball.
I’ll say “if fair” on a ball hit near the lines. And then, without fail, teams will claim that they didn’t hear it or still argue it’s an infield fly when the ball became foul. So, in reality, I’m not really sure if saying “if fair” is even worth the effort.
Adding “...if fair” to the infield fly call is recommended, but it’s just a courtesy to the teams. It doesn’t change the rule or the ruling. If an umpire doesn’t say that, and it becomes foul...still just a foul ball.
I’ll say “if fair” on a ball hit near the lines. And then, without fail, teams will claim that they didn’t hear it or still argue it’s an infield fly when the ball became foul. So, in reality, I’m not really sure if saying “if fair” is even worth the effort.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
If it’s so “basic,” how come there are so many questions about it to the point that we had to put up a sticky to cover it ad nauseam?
He screwed up, that’s true. We all screw up out there.
Calm down, take a breath, and stop yelling. Maybe you’ll get better umpires once that happens.
Because people are stupid. Just because people don't understand something, doesn't mean it isn't basic. Seeing all the times people think of and have mean the same thing should've taught you that.If it’s so “basic,” how come there are so many questions about it to the point that we had to put up a sticky to cover it ad nauseam?
He screwed up, that’s true. We all screw up out there.
Calm down, take a breath, and stop yelling. Maybe you’ll get better umpires once that happens.
I hate you.
Hiltz
Built for comfort
Do you love to hate me? Because I'd take that right now.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
Am I wrong, or by turning toward the dugout he's automatically out, thus taking off the force play, and the runner could have just stayed on first? Just wonderingWas there a question?
Think about it.
Runners on 1 and 2 MUST stay close to their bags. If the fielder let's it drop, a DP is relatively simple.
With a runner only on 1B, only he has to stay close. The batter/runner can and should move toward 1B. Even a fat, old, slow guy can get there on a jog. Trust me, I know this first hand.
I was catching one time, runner on 1B, less than 2 outs. Batter pops up 10' in front of the plate, turns in disgust and heads to the 3b side dugout. I couldn't help myself. I took a few steps out, let it hit and bounce right back to me. Easy DP. I could have made it an unassisted DP if I wanted to be a real ****
If the runner would have even jogged to 1B, I wouldn't have taken the chance of a bad hop. Since he didn't, I had nothing to lose(except my self respect). Even if I booted it badly, he still couldn't have made it to 1B
lb16
the natural
Uh what????
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Yes, you are wrong.