Integrity of the game

[jbo911]

During the thread about new stamp talks someone laughed at utrip mentioning the integrity of the game as a motivation behind their decision.

Last night we played league ball againsta team made up of rec through c players. I knew the c players i think, they were cool.

Most of the rest of them were ooping on middle shots, going crazy on fence scrapers, and bat flipping everything. This is all with bats that are nearly or failing compression, and golf balls as it was 40-50 out. There's not even a tee shirt for fall league, and they're trying to blow people off the mound and cheering, all while being up by a significant amount.

Not only are these guys only able to hit like this because of the temperature and the equipment, but just imagine how these guys would act on their actual teams In a game that matters.

Next time you're questioning people that wonder about "the integrity of the game", this is what they're talking about.

 

[blakcherry329]

During the me new stamp talks someone laughed at utrip mentioning the integrity of the game as a motivation behind their decision.

Last night we played league ball againsta team made up of rec through c players. I knew the c players i think, they were cool.

Most of the rest of them were ooping on middle shots, going crazy on fence scrapers, and bat flipping everything. This is all with bats that are nearly or failing compression, and golf balls as it was 40-50 out. There's not even a tee shirt for fall league, and they're trying to blow people off the mound and cheering, all while being up by a significant amount.

Not only are these guys only able to hit like this because of the temperature and the equipment, but just imagine how these guys would act on their actual teams In a game that matters.

Next time you're questioning people that wonder about "the integrity of the game", this is what they're talking about.

Not sure what your point is here, no disrespect.

 

[Matth]

Not sure what your point is here, no disrespect.

Basically he was playing against a bunch of weenies who were only successful because of the favorable conditions they had: rock hard balls and rocket launcher bats. In order to bring the integrity back to the game dead balls and bats should be used. At least that’s what I got from it. If only decent human beings played softball these hard balls and bats would be fine. Unfortunately we have degenerates who wear stuff like stupid looking oversize shirts, arm sleeves, face coverings, ext. Guys have shave/alter bats. Whatever else.

 

[jbo911]

Someone said they didn't understand how equipment that was too hot could change the integrity of the game. Once the temperature drops enough that one of the five tools greatly outweighs the others, let's just say the cream doesn't rise to the top.

 

[jbo911]

Basically he was playing against a bunch of weenies who were only successful because of the favorable conditions they had: rock hard balls and rocket launcher bats. In order to bring the integrity back to the game dead balls and bats should be used. At least that’s what I got from it.

Raising the bats compression compression 20 pounds is hardly dead, but basically. Requiring some tiny amount of skill to hit would've been enough to humble the people crowing the loudest.

Baseball, and to a lesser extent softball, used to be a sport where anyone could find a role. Everything has taken a backseat to hitting, and more specifically hitting it through someone.

 

[Matth]

Raising the bats compression compression 20 pounds is hardly dead, but basically. Requiring some tiny amount of skill to hit would've been enough to humble the people crowing the loudest.

Baseball, and to a lesser extent softball, used to be a sport where anyone could find a role. Everything has taken a backseat to hitting, and more specifically hitting it through someone.

I’m lucky now to play in a league with great people. People who for the most part play and act respectfully. People who don’t see softball as a chance to take out their aggression on others. I’ve played against clown teams and clown players like the ones you described. People who do basically the bs you described in your post. People who talk s?!’ and try to start fights. A lot of these people were garbage athletes in high school if they were athletes at all. Now they play softball every night of the week while their wives and kids stay at home. Anyway I’m just grateful I’m in a league void of these chumps. Rant over.

 

[ilyk2win]

There's not much integrity in society so why would we expect it in a hobby? Look around....everything including politics is "look at ME"....so adjust your expectations. It's not just the downfall of this game we all love....

 

[Redsfan]

True. It's more than a softball problem. It's a society problem.

 

[blakcherry329]

Someone said they didn't understand how equipment that was too hot could change the integrity of the game. Once the temperature drops enough that one of the five tools greatly outweighs the others, let's just say the cream doesn't rise to the top.

The game hasn't had integrity since the early 2000s, imo. Ultras I & II, Extendeds and Flex, Freaks with a thousand hits on them hitting rock hard balls was the beginning of the decline, imo.
But your example has more to do with Aholes playing softball than equipment. Doesn't matter what bat you swing or balls you hit if you're douche bag.

 

[Redsfan]

I started playing in 1989. There were douchebags back then too but not even close to as many as today.

 

[hitless45]

There's not much integrity in society so why would we expect it in a hobby? Look around....everything including politics is "look at ME"....so adjust your expectations. It's not just the downfall of this game we all love....

Politics/politicians is what makes folk think all that is ok unfortunately even more so these last few years js

 

[jbo911]

That's the issue for me. Softball will always have crybabies and sandbagging, but back when the game required the teensiest amount of skill those guys were easy to shut up.

Anyone got humbled or quit. Everyone eventually got their comeuppance.

Now, we have guys that have played for over a decade with nothing but composites. Guys that have been playing a long time with nothing but super hot composites.

It's always happened, and yes their lack of sportsmanship is their own character flaw, but the equation is just too far out of balance imo. There is no reality check for the douchebags.

 

[dunkky]

There's not much integrity in society so why would we expect it in a hobby? Look around....everything including politics is "look at ME"....so adjust your expectations. It's not just the downfall of this game we all love....

this is a damn true statement.

 

[jbo911]

There's not much integrity in society so why would we expect it in a hobby? Look around....everything including politics is "look at ME"....so adjust your expectations. It's not just the downfall of this game we all love....

You're exactly right about that, but this is a little different. The integrity of the game is more about even playing field than it is about people actually having integrity. The game becomes a joke when certain aspects are treated differently than others.

If the equipment gets too hot, etc.

Like if they moved the bases to 30 feet to increase run scoring.

Or if they let you have twelve guys on defense to lower the scores.

There is the game, then as you deviate from it in any direction, it becomes something else.

 

[Joker]

 

[TWmccoy]

Equipment can ABSOLUTELY change the integrity of the game. We have one league that plays on 300' fields (though they play more like 280'). They use .44 375 balls and ASA bats. Its freaking insane. You have guys taking half swings and hitting balls 40' over the fence. Everyone swings beat up Monstas and Demarini ASA bats. Those bats aren't even meant to hit .44 375s. The bats sound like shotguns and the ball comes off lightning fast. I have no clue how no one has gotten maimed pitching or playing infield. This league isn't even any fun because the ball/bat combo is ridiculous.

On a slightly different note, the players themselves can destroy the integrity of the game by acting like clowns on the field. Purposely blowing up middle and bat flipping every hit is just douche-y. Its up to the ump to control that aspect of the game a little bit.

 

[dunkky]

but who controls the equipment? Human. Human-being are number one factor all the time.

 

[jbo911]

but who controls the equipment? Human. Human-being are number one factor all the time.

Not necessarily. They're hitting it, we're fielding it. If we were hitting 52s with 280 compression bats those infield holes would shrink up a lot.

The mental game makes up so much of this game these guys would start over swinging and flying out and hitting weak grounders so much it wouldn't matter if they're douches or not. THAT is the difference.

 

[clementeunknown]

I would just get rid of the Classic M and make the official ball the Classic +. The ball has a bigger effect on the game than the bats do. For example below.....

 

[jbo911]

I would just get rid of the Classic M and make the official ball the Classic +. The ball has a bigger effect on the game than the bats do. For example below.....

I thought that was a hell of a series. Nice 300' fences and that could be every conference event. Definitely get more local teams to play at each stop.

 

[TWmccoy]

I would just get rid of the Classic M and make the official ball the Classic +. The ball has a bigger effect on the game than the bats do. For example below.....

I agree. The classic + is a perfectly adequate ball. Maybe using Space Coast stadium is a bit of an extreme example, but C+s do fine in all weather conditions. I'd still rather see those low scoring games in FL rather than a game with stadium balls where its like 50-45. With a C+ ball you'll need to be absolutely perfect in hitting it out though the cross wind in that stadium. On the other hand, this year at the major WS guys were flicking stadium balls to RC and they were blowing out in the jet stream easily.

Instead, USSSA has now introduced a new ball (Pro M .44 375) that is pretty damn hot. Hitting them in Viera this year I saw all sorts of HRs, many of them the products of hot bats rather than sheer hitting skill.

Having hit C+s in FL, I will say it takes legit skill to hit them out. However, it isn't impossible. The one thing I love about C+s is that the ball doesn't change much based on temperature or humidity. Everyone knows classic Ms can either be marshmallows or absolute rocks.

Using a C+ ball somewhat negates the hotness of the bats. Using a hard ball only exacerbates that hotness.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't even like playing on 300' fields with .44 375s or classic Ms and today's bats. It takes far more skill to keep the ball in the yard than to hit it out. The game becomes a contest of who can hit the best judy shot rather than who can hit the ball the hardest and furthest. IMO, classic Ms and .44s are outdated balls. I say that because the bats have become so much hotter in recent years.

 

[jbo911]

I agree. The classic + is a perfectly adequate ball. Maybe using Space Coast stadium is a bit of an extreme example, but C+s do fine in all weather conditions. I'd still rather see those low scoring games in FL rather than a game with stadium balls where its like 50-45. With a C+ ball you'll need to be absolutely perfect in hitting it out though the cross wind in that stadium. On the other hand, this year at the major WS guys were flicking stadium balls to RC and they were blowing out in the jet stream easily.

Instead, USSSA has now introduced a new ball (Pro M .44 375) that is pretty damn hot. Hitting them in Viera this year I saw all sorts of HRs, many of them the products of hot bats rather than sheer hitting skill.

Having hit C+s in FL, I will say it takes legit skill to hit them out. However, it isn't impossible. The one thing I love about C+s is that the ball doesn't change much based on temperature or humidity. Everyone knows classic Ms can either be marshmallows or absolute rocks.

Using a C+ ball somewhat negates the hotness of the bats. Using a hard ball only exacerbates that hotness.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't even like playing on 300' fields with .44 375s or classic Ms and today's bats. It takes far more skill to keep the ball in the yard than to hit it out. The game becomes a contest of who can hit the best judy shot rather than who can hit the ball the hardest and furthest. IMO, classic Ms and .44s are outdated balls. I say that because the bats have become so much hotter in recent years.

This is the greatest assault on the integrity of the game. People are swinging at 60% and placing hard hit shots with ease. Today's game is like playing basketball on an eight foot rim that's four feet across. It's already pitched underhanded, when is enough enough?

 

[EAJuggalo]

Purposely blowing up middle and bat flipping every hit is just douche-y. Its up to the ump to control that aspect of the game a little bit.

How and why is this the umpire's responsibility? What rules in the book should I be using to control this? I can stop a lot of the jaw jacking, but middle is part of the field and for the most part I don't even see bat flips.

 

[blakcherry329]

How and why is this the umpire's responsibility? What rules in the book should I be using to control this? I can stop a lot of the jaw jacking, but middle is part of the field and for the most part I don't even see bat flips.

The best way to deal with DBs and Aholes is to beat them, plain and simple. I don't need the ump to step in. It's not little league.

 

[Chris_R]

Most of the rest of them were ooping on middle shots, going crazy on fence scrapers, and bat flipping everything. This is all with bats that are nearly or failing compression, and golf balls as it was 40-50 out. There's not even a tee shirt for fall league, and they're trying to blow people off the mound and cheering, all while being up by a significant amount.

This is one of the contributing factors to me quitting "full time" tournament ball. Stuff just got old. Granted, I do see it in league every now and then, but it's not every other damn team like it was in tournaments.

 

[jbo911]

This is one of the contributing factors to me quitting "full time" tournament ball. Stuff just got old. Granted, I do see it in league every now and then, but it's not every other damn team like it was in tournaments.

To be honest, I'm probably a year or tworemoved from the exclusively charity or round robin tournament Circuit. Almost a much fun with way less headaches.

 

[EA Sports]

To be honest, I'm probably a year or tworemoved from the exclusively charity or round robin tournament Circuit. Almost a much fun with way less headaches.

Don’t be a pansy and come play a couple tournaments in Minnesota!

 

[jbo911]

Don’t be a pansy and come play a couple tournaments in Minnesota!

Move hufflepuff up a week.

 

[EA Sports]

Move hufflepuff up a week.

Request the time off? Tell them you have to visit your accidental son.

 

[FLEET]

if you don't mind prison, one way to stop the chatter is to squeeze the jugular until they cease to breathe