ASA Is it obstruction if a bat interferes with play at plate?

hookumsnivy

hookumsnivy

Addicted to Softballfans
joncon said:
It seems like the guy who bats before me carries it halfway down the 1B line if we have the 3b dugout or chucks it halfway up the 3B line if we have the 1B dugout.
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I hate when the batter before me does that.

If the OP tripped over the bat outside the 3rd base line he would still be bitching.
 
J

joncon

Addicted to Softballfans
petebanta said:
But that is part of my point. It is NOT the catcher's job to remove bats, it is the batter's job (or his teammates) to keep it clear of the play area.
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I would agree and if I were writing the rule, I would be more specific. For now, logic and general etiquette says that the catcher, ump or on deck batter should move the bat.
 
hookumsnivy

hookumsnivy

Addicted to Softballfans
petebanta said:
But that is part of my point. It is NOT the catcher's job to remove bats, it is the batter's job (or his teammates) to keep it clear of the play area. Why should the defense be concerned with offensive equipment? It seems the burden of responsibility is with the batter to place the bat somewhere it will not interfere with play. Otherwise, he could always leave it where it could get in the way and create a problem for the defense. If the rules don't say it is the catcher's job to do it, it seems it is the batter's, since it is his piece of equipment (same way defense cannot throw glove in way or runner/ball).
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C. The on-deck batter may leave the on-deck circle:
1. When they become the batter.
2. When directing runners advancing from third to home plate.
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So if we want to get technical the on-deck batter may NOT leave the on-deck circle to move the bat.
lawyered.jpg
 
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I

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
petebanta said:
Ah, but it says DEFENSE and not CATCHER, so this can mean any defensive player and at any point during the play, not just directly after hit. So, the language is actually somewhat vague.

What they're getting at and what the rule SAYS are not the same thing.

Ask any lawyer...
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Pete,

You asked, been given the same answer from a couple sources and now want to quote a rule that you obviously do not understand.

Attend a few clinics, a school or two and then get back to us.
 
yem549

yem549

Bullpen Catcher
joncon said:
It seems like the guy who bats before me carries it halfway down the 1B line if we have the 3b dugout or chucks it halfway up the 3B line if we have the 1B dugout.
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See, in that case I'm more than happy to get the bat for you if I'm catching, as long as play is dead, I hate running out of time.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
petebanta said:
Actually if you re-read it, my original post says I am the pitcher and was the one who tripped over the left bat while going to plate to make play at home. As I am a defensive player, the bat obstruction rule pertains to me, too.

My point about lawyers has to do with semantics (big word that means what words mean). Rules are the same as laws. The language used matters greatly. If it says defensive player, it means ANY defensive player. It HAS to say ONLY catcher, to mean only the catcher can be interfered with by a left bat. Since it does not, the rule applies to ANY defensive player (including the pitcher). Meaning, that since the bat obstructed my ability to make a play, it is ruled obstruction, and the batter is out. Run still counts, but batter is out.
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Wow, so many things wrong with this post, where do I even begin?

1 - Stop saying obstruction. You're using the wrong term. It's "interference," not "obstruction." "Obstruction" is a baseball thing. You're not playing baseball, so stop showing your ignorance of the sport.

2 - Rules are not laws. Quit thinking they are.

3 - The batter discarding the bat in front of the plate is not inherently illegal. Stop thinking it is.

Maybe you think that some of the dirt you tripped on that the batter kicked out of the box should earn you an interference call, too.

You're looking for something that just isn't there. Stop making excuses for your lack of ability to get the out.
 
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Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
NCASAUmp said:
Wow, so many things wrong with this post, where do I even begin?

1 - Stop saying obstruction. You're using the wrong term. It's "interference," not "obstruction." "Obstruction" is a baseball thing. You're not playing baseball, so stop showing your ignorance of the sport.

2 - Rules are not laws. Quit thinking they are.

3 - The batter discarding the bat in front of the plate is not inherently illegal. Stop thinking it is.

Maybe you think that some of the dirt you tripped on that the batter kicked out of the box should earn you an interference call, too.

You're looking for something that just isn't there. Stop making excuses for your lack of ability to get the out.
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stop making sense :rolleyes:
 
buckster

buckster

Addicted to Softballfans
Dear petebanta,

So let me get this straight... you're the pitcher. A ball is hit to the outfield and the female catcher, who seems to have been instructed to cede her responsibility to you on any play at home doesn't even have the sense to move the properly discarded ("unseen") bat. You, while running to cover home, fail to see the properly discarded ("unseen") bat and you step on it. This causes you miss the throw and the runner is safe. Now you want the BR called for INT because the bat was in your way.

petebanta said:
It is NOT the catcher's job to remove bats, it is the batter's job (or his teammates) to keep it clear of the play area.
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By this reasoning, every batter would have to to throw their bat over a fence or into DBT after hitting the ball.

petebanta said:
Why should the defense be concerned with offensive equipment?
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Because of the exact situation you described in your OP.

petebanta said:
If the rules don't say it is the catcher's job to do it, it seems it is the batter's, since it is his piece of equipment (same way defense cannot throw glove in way or runner/ball).
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The rules don't specifically mention whose responsibility moving a discarded bat is. The defense throwing a glove at a batted ball is a deliberate act engineered towards nullifying the offense's ability to score runs or advance runners. What if the situation had changed to this: bat is discarded 5 feet up the line in foul ground. Throw is off-line and hits the bat. The ball then goes into DBT, allowing the BR to advance 2 bases from the time of the throw. Do you want an INT call because the bat was in the way of a wayward throw? Did the BR know exactly where the throw would hit and place his/her bat in that exact location? Unless the batter knew your exact path of approach to the plate before the play happened, they did nothing wrong. Sounds to me like your catcher should either be making the play OR you should have her clearing the bat if its location is going to be an issue.

The rules are a framework for the umpires to interpret and players must adhere to the judgment of said umpires. Your situation ended in a judgment by the umpire that the bat was not deliberately placed by the BR in order to hinder your ability to make a play on the runner. So: the runner is safe and BR gets to stay where they are. Question was asked, you didn't like the answer. Then you tried to argue the semantics of the rulebook wording and it got you nowhere with some highly respected and qualified arbiters.

If this were a court case it would have been thrown out due to lack of evidence.
 
Sonic625

Sonic625

An Admin
Staff member
The easy answer to this situation in the first place is to have a catcher who can catch a ball
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
Sonic625 said:
The easy answer to this situation in the first place is to have a catcher who can catch a ball
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that isn't always the case though, especially in lower level co-ed leagues. 9.5 times out of 10 a team is going to have a girl at C that can barely play.
 
TEDDY3

TEDDY3

????????
I

petebanta said:
Actually if you re-read it, my original post says I am the pitcher and was the one who tripped over the left bat while going to plate to make play at home. As I am a defensive player, the bat obstruction rule pertains to me, too.

My point about lawyers has to do with semantics (big word that means what words mean). Rules are the same as laws. The language used matters greatly. If it says defensive player, it means ANY defensive player. It HAS to say ONLY catcher, to mean only the catcher can be interfered with by a left bat. Since it does not, the rule applies to ANY defensive player (including the pitcher). Meaning, that since the bat obstructed my ability to make a play, it is ruled obstruction, and the batter is out. Run still counts, but batter is out.
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bet you play, nothing but coed?:rolleyes:
 
R

Raiderfan81

4theFallen Fanatic
lmao........this cracks me up........I played P, C, SS and 1B at the same time last night for a coed team......it was rather fun.....we started with 6 and I was all over the place......

my take on the bat thing......if its in your way, move it! be proactive. its not the on deck batters job either.....they should be NOWHERE near the play.
 
Sully

Sully

Wanna buy jerseys/rings?
You're right, everyone else is wrong. It was obstruction and the only reason you dropped a pop fly in a CoEd game was because the batter was irresponsible. We are lucky you are still alive after such a dangerous play.














:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You asked for an answer and got the same answer from several sources. Of course you didn't really want the real rule explanation you wanted everyone to sympathize with how you were a victim and help you make excuses for dropping a routine pop fly in a CoEd game. You were embarrassed you dropped the ball, you were embarrassed you had to get out the cool credit card to pay off all the cool points you lost almost busting your ass on the bat that was in plain sight fifty feet in front of you, and now you want everyone to agree with your excuse even if it is wrong, wrong, and even wronger!

(BTW NCASAUMP, I know it's interference not obstruction before you give me three umpiring demerits, but I am going with the flow. This is his excuse, I'm just along for the ride).

Any minute now everyone that has posted the real rule interpretation will rescind their explanation, tell you they were wrong and it's all going to be ok.

Wait for it.....................................Wait for it......................................
 
Sully

Sully

Wanna buy jerseys/rings?
Wait for it..........it's coming now, any minute they will all post at once to go back and say you lawyered them into it.

(If your cool credit card wasn't already maxed out from almost busting your ass on a bat in front of family and friends, whatever respect and cool credit you had left WAS taken as soon as you used the word "lawyer" to convince people you were right.)

Wait for it .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Sully said:
You're right, everyone else is wrong. It was obstruction and the only reason you dropped a pop fly in a CoEd game was because the batter was irresponsible. We are lucky you are still alive after such a dangerous play.
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Right now, this is debatable. :rolleyes:
 
HABADAWOOSAA

HABADAWOOSAA

I'm The Suck.
look since you dont let the "girl" catcher that is there to play just have her pick up the bat and this will never be and issue again. (i only read the first page not sure what the hell was said in the other 3)
 
Country35

Country35

Banned User
This rule is definately open to interpretation. Bats roll, they are round. To expect a hitter to worry about this or a catcher for that matter is asking way too much. I agree whole heartedly that the on deck hitter should be getting this out of the way. It should be their job to be telling a runner whether there is a close play at home or now anyway, they should be in the general area. This should be a no call, chalk this one up to bad luck just like a bad hop.
 
T

Todd378

Addicted to Softballfans
Here for the designated bat disposal area marked by chalk to your immeidate left and/or right
 
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