Any Need clarity on obstruction call

[Mongo23]

I play in a Sunday morning modified league and the ump we had for the Fathers day game was awful. But one "call" he made baffled me:

Leadoff hitter up, he puts one in a gap and tries to leg out a double. Firstbaseman for the other team is slightly out of position and our hitter has to try and avoid hitting him. Runner is safe going into second but over runs the base, and gets tagged out trying to get back to second. Ump calls him out, which would be the right call... BUT ump then says the firstbaseman obstructed the play, HOWEVER he says the runner is still out because he continued the play at his own risk so no obstruction. When runner asks why the ump didn't call out for obstruction, ump said he didn't want to yell out and disrupt the play.

I've played ball my whole life but interference and obstruction calls still have shades of grey for me because they are rare. But, once an obstruction occurs, I thought the play was dead and runners were placed in appropriate spots. Am I wrong or was this umpire an idiot?

Thanks for helping clarify this for me.

 

[Joker]

its a delayed dead ball. this is where i'm guessing; since he reached the base safely but over ran it, the obstruction is gone and can now be called out

 

[eddieq]

its a delayed dead ball. this is where i'm guessing; since he reached the base safely but over ran it, the obstruction is gone and can now be called out

^^^^Exactly.

With obstruction, you protect the runner to the base you felt he would have gotten had no obstruction occurred. Let's say that was second (as in no way he would have reached third even without the obstruction). Once he reached second safely, the obstruction is cancelled.

So, not a clear explanation by the ump (from your description) but exactly the right application of the rule.

As for "calling it out", you signal (left arm extended with a fist). He can say "obstruction" but doesn't have to scream it.

 

[JStout863]

Correct. He's out.

 

[Joker]

in a 1 ump scenario and multiple runners on base, is there a mechanic to identify which runner was obstructed?

 

[Mongo23]

Thanks guys for the help. I didn't care about the call one way or another but after the initial arguement between my players / their players and the blue, I couldn't even approach him to calmly ask him to explain because he threatened to toss me.

 

[MP33]

Thanks guys for the help. I didn't care about the call one way or another but after the initial arguement between my players / their players and the blue, I couldn't even approach him to calmly ask him to explain because he threatened to toss me.

Should have done that in the first place

 

[Mongo23]

Should have done that in the first place

As soon as he explained himself I started over just trying to get clarity. But my runner and a few other guys from both teams were chirping and the ump decided it was more worth his time to yell back at them instead of talk to me. By the time he was done with them it was "sit down or you're gone."

 

[USA All the wAy]

So worse ump ever but he got the call right and you had no idea it was still a live ball. Plus you allowed your players to argue with him about a rule you were all cluess on. Then you expected him to calmly explain it to you.
LOL.

No wait...ROTFLMAO.

 

[Mongo23]

So worse ump ever but he got the call right and you had no idea it was still a live ball. Plus you allowed your players to argue with him about a rule you were all cluess on. Then you expected him to calmly explain it to you.
LOL.

No wait...ROTFLMAO.

Yes worst ump I have ever had (I can give him the benefit and say he had an off day but his performance that day was awful)... made several bad calls all game long, consistently incosistent strike zone, and twice gotten other rules of the game wrong. BUT even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

I knew it was a live ball during the play because no one knew he had (or hadn't) signaled for obstruction. HOWEVER I didn't know if the call was correct because (as I said) I am not an umpire and don't know every rule to the letter of the law. I would hardly say I was "clueless."

And allow? I'm sure the other 12 guys on your team jump when you tell them to... I can't make them do anything. I tried to get them to settle down and talk to the blue man to man but he wanted none of it... which is fine, and why I am asking now so I understand the rule better in future.

 

[sjury]

On the team I was running, I told everyone that they could be mad, but on a questionable play just yell to me, and as the manager I would run in from left field and get clarification, mostly symbolic as maybe 10% of the time it was not a judgment call, and talk to blue. I would basically ask what he saw and why he called it. Talk the rule over, accept or protest, or say well if that's what you saw, thanks for your point of view. There's no point to get bent out of shape and start yelling.

Now that I'm not managing, sometimes I get the guys saying Steve, what do you think? 90% of the time I say, I think you should just play ball, while you still have the chance... Lol. I'm a firm believer in, if he's not getting your calls right, then he's not getting theirs right either so it's a wash.

 

[Sully]

Yes worst ump I have ever had (I can give him the benefit and say he had an off day but his performance that day was awful)... made several bad calls all game long, consistently incosistent strike zone, and twice gotten other rules of the game wrong. BUT even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

I knew it was a live ball during the play because no one knew he had (or hadn't) signaled for obstruction. HOWEVER I didn't know if the call was correct because (as I said) I am not an umpire and don't know every rule to the letter of the law. I would hardly say I was "clueless."

And allow? I'm sure the other 12 guys on your team jump when you tell them to... I can't make them do anything. I tried to get them to settle down and talk to the blue man to man but he wanted none of it... which is fine, and why I am asking now so I understand the rule better in future.

Even if he gave the signal and verablized obstruction, it's NOT a dead ball. He still wouldn't have killed the play and awarded the runners bases. He is protected between 1st and 2nd in this scenario, once he gets to 2nd and overruns the base, he's live.

You probably deserve a little bit of the heat he gave you because you and your teammates were chirping at the umpire on a rule you were completely clueless on. I've never understood how guys can go ballistic arguing a rule they don't know 100% they are correct on. Actually, the going ballistic thing I don't understand. If they apply the rule wrong, protest. If they make a bad judgment call, a good umpire isn't changing it, so move on.

The way SJury runs things is the best way. Even in MLB when players feel like the ump messed up a call, it's usually the manager that comes and argues even if it's to protect the player from getting heated and getting tossed. It will probably be better received by the umpire too. He has one guy, (the same guy the whole game) to deal with that usually is more calm than the guy called out, and doesn't feel like he's getting surrounded by five grown men yelling at him like they are children. He's more likely to have a civil conversation and explain the call. Just a suggestion.

 

[irishmafia]

in a 1 ump scenario and multiple runners on base, is there a mechanic to identify which runner was obstructed?

No need to identify the OBS runner

 

[Pepe Silvia]

So in a situation where the obstruction causes you to not have time to slow down before the base and you overrun it because you're going all out and you can't stop well, should you be protected until you return and are actually safe on the base? I'm talking about a situation where you made absolutely no attempt to continue on to the next base, just couldn't stop cause it was close, or you thought it was close.

 

[Joker]

So in a situation where the obstruction causes you to not have time to slow down before the base and you overrun it because you're going all out and you can't stop well, should you be protected until you return and are actually safe on the base? I'm talking about a situation where you made absolutely no attempt to continue on to the next base, just couldn't stop cause it was close, or you thought it was close.

i can't think of a situation where obstruction by a fielder would make you get to the base faster than normal

 

[BretMan]

A part of the obstruction rule that might apply here: An obstructed runner may not be put out between the two base where he was obstructed.

When a runner is obstructed right at a base, this protection can apply forward and backwards. For example, if you were obstructed right before a base, then had to continue on your obstructed/altered path right after the base, you could be protected between the last base and the next base.

If this weird obstruction you describe happened at, say, second base, the umpire could protect you both between first and second as well as between second and third.

 

[joncon]

Am I wrong or was this umpire an idiot?

A :thumb:

It makes perfect and logical sense.

If the runner was protected forever, he could just over run 2B, and 3B and continue home. Logic says to protect him the the base he would have made it to without the obstruction.

 

[irishmafia]

So in a situation where the obstruction causes you to not have time to slow down before the base and you overrun it because you're going all out and you can't stop well, should you be protected until you return and are actually safe on the base? I'm talking about a situation where you made absolutely no attempt to continue on to the next base, just couldn't stop cause it was close, or you thought it was close.

that is absurd. Wouldn't you be going all out regardless? And wouldn't the player be required to stop on the base if not obstructed?

 

[Sully]

So in a situation where the obstruction causes you to not have time to slow down before the base and you overrun it because you're going all out and you can't stop well, should you be protected until you return and are actually safe on the base? I'm talking about a situation where you made absolutely no attempt to continue on to the next base, just couldn't stop cause it was close, or you thought it was close.

How would the obstruction not allow you to have time to slow down? By definition obstruction is something that impedes your progress. If something is impeding your progress, wouldn't most people slow down to avoid the person causing the obtruction?

I have a feeling (or maybe I'm hoping here) that you are describing a legitimate situation but just didn't get your question across very good.

 

[tcannizzo]

How would the obstruction not allow you to have time to slow down? By definition obstruction is something that impedes your progress. If something is impeding your progress, wouldn't most people slow down to avoid the person causing the obtruction?

I have a feeling (or maybe I'm hoping here) that you are describing a legitimate situation but just didn't get your question across very good.

Could be a change of direction that caused R to miss the base.
F5 towards the back edge of 3B, R was going to round 3B to head home, but missed 3B then came back to touch as throw comes in?

 

[Pepe Silvia]

that is absurd. Wouldn't you be going all out regardless? And wouldn't the player be required to stop on the base if not obstructed?

There are any number of hits where you would have plenty of time to slow up before second but because you fell or had to stop or go around someone, you suddenly didn't have any time as the throw was now a lot closer than it was and you're in the same spot.

Then there's any number of ways obstruction close to the base could have you missing to the side and barely getting it with a hand or a foot, or stumbling over it, etc. You'd touch it, but you don't have much of a chance to get stable on the base.

 

[Joker]

because you fell or stopped you can't slow down? that makes no sense

 

[Illegal pitcher]

How would the obstruction not allow you to have time to slow down?

A fielder accidentally trips a runner 10' before a base. The runner doesn't go down, but stumbles past the base.

If something is impeding your progress, wouldn't most people slow down to avoid the person causing the obtruction?

Not sure why it matters, but you've never seen a runner looking at the ball in the outfield and he runs into a fielder?