Any Out or adavnce (Don't know)??

[Will B]

The situation Runner on 1st 1 out. The batter hits a flyball to center and the LC makes an awesome, but bobbling catch. The runner from 1st was running on contact (I think he thought there were 2 outs) and had rounded 2nd base when the ball was caught. He then begins to retreat to 1st without retagging 2nd base, the thrown ball was missed by the 1B and went out of play. There was then an argument as to where the runner should adavnce to 2nd or 3rd by the offensive team, and then the defensive team appealed the play and now the unpire really wasn't sure what call to make. He did see the runner fail to retag 2nd. He got together with the umpire waitng to do the next game (setting in the stands) after a brief conference, they decided the runner was out on the appeal. What is the right call? I don't know.

 

[Sonic625]

Out on appeal is the correct call, you have to retouch the bases in order.

Now, since the ball gone out of play and he knew he needed to touch second first he could have touched second then back to first and trotted all the way home because 2 bases from the time the ball left the fielders hand direction of the runner has no effect on the award

OVERTHROWS.
Runners are always awarded two bases on balls that are overthrown or
become blocked as a result of hitting loose equipment that belongs to the
defensive team and should not be on the field (RS #18). Regardless of who
made the throw, two bases are awarded from the last base touched at the
time the thrown ball was released.
The runner’s direction of movement has no effect on the award. When an
overthrow is made on a runner returning to a base, the runner is awarded
two bases from that base.
EXCEPTION: When the runner is returning to first base and the throw is
from the outfield, it leaves the outfielder’s hand while the runner is between
2B and 3B, but the runner is between 1B and 2B when the ball goes out of
play, the runner is awarded home plate.

 

[mazzamouth]

the runner should have been awarded 3rd, since that was the last legally touched base.. ( yes I know he touched 2nd, but not legally, as he needed to tag up)..once the umpire awards the bases, then the defense should appeal...The umpires can not can the runner out, unless there was a proper appeal.

 

[BretMan]

Maz- doesn't the "last time by" theory apply here?

Once the runner takes his base award- and assuming he touches second base on the way to third while taking it- he has corrected the initial miss. In other words, he touched second on his "last time by", thus eliminating the opportunity for an appeal for missing the first time.

Speaking ASA and NSA softball (the two softball sanctions I work, beside high school fastpitch) the base award would be two bases from wherever the runner was when the throw was made. If he was between second and third, he would get home. If he was between first and second, he would get third.

Awarding the runner third base, no matter where he was when the throw was made, would be correct in high school baseball and, I assume, NCAA baseball (which I know that you work). The softball rules are different.

Another wild card: If this was a USSSA game, the award would be second base- the base the runner left early from and has to go back to touch and then the advance base (their version of "two bases" on this play).

 

[NCASAUmp]

Maz- doesn't the "last time by" theory apply here?

Once the runner takes his base award- and assuming he touches second base on the way to third while taking it- he has corrected the initial miss. In other words, he touched second on his "last time by", thus eliminating the opportunity for an appeal for missing the first time.

Speaking ASA and NSA softball (the two softball sanctions I work, beside high school fastpitch) the base award would be two bases from wherever the runner was when the throw was made. If he was between second and third, he would get home. If he was between first and second, he would get third.

Awarding the runner third base, no matter where he was when the throw was made, would be correct in high school baseball and, I assume, NCAA baseball (which I know that you work). The softball rules are different.

Another wild card: If this was a USSSA game, the award would be second base- the base the runner left early from and has to go back to touch and then the advance base (their version of "two bases" on this play).

Oh boy... This is going to get interesting, isn't it?

 

[buckster]

R1 touched 2B while advancing. If the ball entered DBT after he missed 2B coming back to 1B then R1 must touch 2B on his way to 3B. Once he does that he has corrected his mistake. The defense isn't going to be bailed out from making a bad throw on this one. Once the ball reaches DBT the runner is now absolved of his mistake IF he touches 2B on his award. Even though he missed 2B upon returning to 1B that goes away because of the ball being thrown into DBT.

Here's one - R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, 1 out. Fly ball to LF, R2 leaves early, R1 legally tags up on catch. F7 catches ball and throws to 3B in an attempt to retire R2 at 3B. Ball goes out of play without touching anyone, I award R1 and R2 home. Defense wants to appeal R2 leaving early. They successfully appeal after the ball returns to live ball territory and I called R2 out, R1 scores. (I know you don't need the ball for a dead ball appeal, but I added that for clarity.) Different from the OP, but same basic principle. If R2 had gone back and retouched 2B he would have been fine.

 

[shotcaller]

usssa

in USSSA the award is slightly different. The award is awarded according to where the runner is but if he has to go back to a base that base would be part of the award.Example..runner heads towards second on a caught ball,turns and heads back to first and the throw back to first goes out of bounds before he reconnects with first base..dead ball and the base he is returning to plus one is the award,so he will end up at second.

 

[NCASAUmp]

R1 touched 2B while advancing. If the ball entered DBT after he missed 2B coming back to 1B then R1 must touch 2B on his way to 3B. Once he does that he has corrected his mistake. The defense isn't going to be bailed out from making a bad throw on this one. Once the ball reaches DBT the runner is now absolved of his mistake IF he touches 2B on his award. Even though he missed 2B upon returning to 1B that goes away because of the ball being thrown into DBT.

Here's one - R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, 1 out. Fly ball to LF, R2 leaves early, R1 legally tags up on catch. F7 catches ball and throws to 3B in an attempt to retire R2 at 3B. Ball goes out of play without touching anyone, I award R1 and R2 home. Defense wants to appeal R2 leaving early. They successfully appeal after the ball returns to live ball territory and I called R2 out, R1 scores. (I know you don't need the ball for a dead ball appeal, but I added that for clarity.) Different from the OP, but same basic principle. If R2 had gone back and retouched 2B he would have been fine.

In ASA, you do not need the ball first on a dead ball appeal. However, the baserunners must be allowed to complete their baserunning responsibilities. If runners are still actively running the bases, no appeals will be honored until this is completed.