Player playing up and then back down

[AreJay]

I need to know the correct ruling on when a player can play up in a classification and when they can play back down.

We were playing in a USSSA "E" tournament on Saturday morning after action on Friday night. The team we are playing against has a player who played in his team's E game on Friday, ran over and played with a C team after their game. He's back to play against us that morning. Obviously the guy was talented as he was absolutely shredding us, with triples off of the fence, exhibiting bat control well above the E level.

We were wondering about his "eligibility" during the game as he played in both classes the night before. Suddenly the guy disappears in the middle of the game. He goes over and continues to play C for the rest of the tournament. I'm all for people playing up, but playing up and then back down seems a tad shady.

What is the rule?

 

[Country35]

the rule is when you have questions like this you ask the tourney director

 

[Balls J]

Section 2 of the unified mens softball rules article 17 states:

Stop being a *****. Take your cuts and let the man play softball.

 

[Zigawhat22]

Depends if the C team's roster is frozen or if he is even on their roster

Ask the TD and get your protest fee ready if he plays against you. Do a little research first such as checking the C teams online roster.

 

[baldgriff]

Actually - In "E" ball I dont think you can have a "C" player. However a "D" player could qualify for both rosters. Now if the guy is actively playing on two rosters in the same tourney bracket that is a problem. As Country stated - Roster issues go to TD - though you would probably have to call the guy out while the game is going and he is participating.

There are roster protests and when you play tourney ball find out what the process is in case you decide you want to do so.

 

[Ferrari1]

1st off its only E...2nd off one guy shredding you?? last time i played we had 10 guys on the field....didnt kno 1 guys stick mad or broke a team!

 

[Balls J]

1st off its only E...2nd off one guy shredding you?? last time i played we had 10 guys on the field....didnt kno 1 guys stick mad or broke a team!

some players or teams, blame others for their shortcomings instead of themselves...

 

[AreJay]

They played great. We played awful. I'm not saying one guy was the difference. I'm just wondering how he was able to play two different classes at the same time.

We said something to the umpire, who said talk to the TD. The TD then said "Well it's up to the umpire."

 

[andy-rockstar]

They played great. We played awful. I'm not saying one guy was the difference. I'm just wondering how he was able to play two different classes at the same time.

We said something to the umpire, who said talk to the TD. The TD then said "Well it's up to the umpire."

Hint: It's not up to the umpires.

 

[DBO20]

1st off its only E...2nd off one guy shredding you?? last time i played we had 10 guys on the field....didnt kno 1 guys stick mad or broke a team!

As I agree with you, I will still say...one guy ends up with 7 RBI's against your team compared to if that guy wasn't in the game and his replacement only had 2 RBI's. That is a 5 run difference. Where I agree is that you have to have guys on for that guy to get 7 RBI's. So I am on the fence. I guess I am saying, 1 guy can definitely make a pretty big difference but can't win or lose the game.

 

[Balls J]

They played great. We played awful. I'm not saying one guy was the difference. I'm just wondering how he was able to play two different classes at the same time.

We said something to the umpire, who said talk to the TD. The TD then said "Well it's up to the umpire."

Basically they were giving you the run around because they dont care. Neither should you. You only get better by playing a better opponent.

 

[hatemail]

As I agree with you, I will still say...one guy ends up with 7 RBI's against your team compared to if that guy wasn't in the game and his replacement only had 2 RBI's. That is a 5 run difference. Where I agree is that you have to have guys on for that guy to get 7 RBI's. So I am on the fence. I guess I am saying, 1 guy can definitely make a pretty big difference but can't win or lose the game.

i agree aswell....softball is a team game but you take a pretty decent E team and give them a C+ shortstop it could significantly change the dynamics of the team...

 

[Iknight1]

As I agree with you, I will still say...one guy ends up with 7 RBI's against your team compared to if that guy wasn't in the game and his replacement only had 2 RBI's. That is a 5 run difference. Where I agree is that you have to have guys on for that guy to get 7 RBI's. So I am on the fence. I guess I am saying, 1 guy can definitely make a pretty big difference but can't win or lose the game.

By your math 1 guy can win or lose a game if the game is decided by 5 runs or less.

 

[Ferrari1]

As I agree with you, I will still say...one guy ends up with 7 RBI's against your team compared to if that guy wasn't in the game and his replacement only had 2 RBI's. That is a 5 run difference. Where I agree is that you have to have guys on for that guy to get 7 RBI's. So I am on the fence. I guess I am saying, 1 guy can definitely make a pretty big difference but can't win or lose the game.

I understand what your saying but u got to remember guys have bad games/days an they have good games/days!!!!

 

[quick23]

In any Utrip tourney a C ranked ball player can play down 2 levels, but counts as 2 chips for the E team... As for playing on 2 teams in on tournament, I have seen teams forfeit for using player from different team in or knocked out of the same tournament...

 

[pnpxtreme]

Actually - In "E" ball I dont think you can have a "C" player. However a "D" player could qualify for both rosters. Now if the guy is actively playing on two rosters in the same tourney bracket that is a problem. As Country stated - Roster issues go to TD - though you would probably have to call the guy out while the game is going and he is participating.

There are roster protests and when you play tourney ball find out what the process is in case you decide you want to do so.

That is not correct. I know in Michigan each "e" team gets 3 "moves". D players count as 1 move. A "c" player would be 2 moves.

 

[Treb]

In any Utrip tourney a C ranked ball player can play down 2 levels, but counts as 2 chips for the E team... As for playing on 2 teams in on tournament, I have seen teams forfeit for using player from different team in or knocked out of the same tournament...

i wouldn't say any u trip tourney, it varies by state.

 

[-Six-]

I had this same thing happen well sort of. The team we were playing had a big fat guy sit and had the stud play from another team. He hit their hr limit, as they had no one who could do it other wise. Our next game the same kid was on the team again. It turns out it was his "real" team. long story short. Umpire was going to remove him from the game, TD showed up and forfieted the previous game in our favor(we lost by one) and let him play.

 

[1st Baseman]

Player

Section 2 of the unified mens softball rules article 17 states:

Stop being a *****. Take your cuts and let the man play softball.

I normally don't agree w/ insults and such...but this is too funny...

 

[Balls J]

I normally don't agree w/ insults and such...but this is too funny...

Much appreciated.

 

[Senek8]

We aren't allowed any C chips on an E team in utrip in Cali. For backyarders we can have 2 D chips and if you have more you are spotting runs. For NIT's, States, Nationals and Worlds I believe the rule is you can have up to 5 D chips but, no C chips. Correct me if I am wrong somehow....

 

[pompetti]

The "Chips" thing is a state policy to try to keep teams on a level playing field.

There are rules for Major Players and the Major Player watch list. You also have players on rosters from 2011 whose team has to play up but nothing preventing 1 player from a move-up team from playing down.

The USSSA bylaws states in Article IV Section 3: "A player shall not complete in any sanctioned tournament of the Association with more than one team during the tournament."

The OP said it was a USSSA E tournament and then says the player in question played with a C team. It sounds like there were multiple tournaments going on at the same time, an E and a C. Unless either team was qualified (aka frozen), I don't see anything preventing a player from being on 2 teams rosters. But that is just my opinion and the eligibility of a player on a team is up to your State Director to determine. You could question the Tournament Director about a player being on the teams roster but the TD doesn't usually make decisions about the skill level of a player and whether they should be allowed to play E.

 

[tnacty]

The rule book says a player can not play on two teams in the same tourney. The question is what is 'the same tourney' and they left it ambiguous as is much of the rule book. Any director would of course interpret it to mean you can't play on two E teams in the same tourney on the same weekend. In Colorado we interpret 'the same tourney' to include all men's divisions at the same location on the same weekend. We also don't allow C players to drop two classes and play E at any time as a 'pickup'. We do occassionally allow a C player from the previous year to join an E roster the following year depending on the impact of the player. As is my usual answer.....this is a question for either the tournament or State Director as they're the ones that have ultimate say in your state. The USSSA rule book is not going to be of help in the least.