Protein diet?

[jdsebastian85]

First I'm a noon to supplements. My wife and I are looking to start lifting and dieting. We eat horribly, but recently I have been getting some 20g protein bars and eating them in place of a meal. My question is, will this help lose weight. My wife and I both want to drop a little weight and be healthier. I deliver drywall for a living, so skipping a meal is out. I need the energy, and these protein bars seem to work. What about protein shakes?

 

[Dirt27]

http://http://forums.softballfans.com/showthread.php?t=1327965

Two different answers for you on the last page of this thread.

 

[Treb]

I always preferred shakes over bars. No science behind it, just a preference.

 

[tap2284]

Carbs will give you energy you need.....protein is broken down last for energy and I would bet the sugars or carbs in the bars you are eating are giving you the boost.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

If you have poor dietary habits, substituting meals with shakes and bars is not the place to start. These are "supplements" to a good intake routine. Look up these guys on the internet, Lyle MacDonald, Alan Aragon or the Precision Nutrition website. At the very least, even the book "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" would be a good buy.

 

[kayakmaker]

If you have poor dietary habits, substituting meals with shakes and bars is not the place to start. These are "supplements" to a good intake routine. Look up these guys on the internet, Lyle MacDonald, Alan Aragon or the Precision Nutrition website. At the very least, even the book "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" would be a good buy.

Pretty much listen to everything this guy says.

 

[jdsebastian85]

Thanks a bunch, I'll definitely check out the media you guys have shared. We are also going to start going to the gym, so I'm sure that will help.

Are there any specific exercises you would recommend for more hitting power? I know the basics but maybe there are some not so obvious things.

 

[Dirt27]

^^^Yes, power exercises.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

^^^Yes, power exercises.

yes, unless you are "weak" then strength before power.

 

[Dirt27]

^^^Agreed, in which case I would say balance first, but I was just joking seeing how he "knew the basics". Checked out the Precision Nutrition website, going to give it the five day trial then report back, not loving how it started!!!

 

[wcoastsoftball]

^^^Agreed, in which case I would say balance first, but I was just joking seeing how he "knew the basics". Checked out the Precision Nutrition website, going to give it the five day trial then report back, not loving how it started!!!

With Berardi's site, I feel one would need to actually use one of his coaches to use his plan effectively, however, he has goobs of great info and downloads on there that are very useful. I have the original PN program here but haven't used it in some time.

 

[spartanmikek]

Here's what works for me. Your first step should be to Figure out your daily caloric requirements to maintain your weight. You can do this on the internet and get pretty close to your correct number. Losing weight is all about burning or consuming less calories then your break even number. Also, start a food diary. Write down everything you eat, lots of people don't realize how many calories they consume. There are great online sites to give you quick calorie amounts on food. There are 2 different types of "protein" bars. The first type is used as a supplement to meals to add protein to ur diet, not to replace meals. The other type is a meal replacement bar that has enough carbs, vitamins, etc. to sufficiently replace meals. Make sure you choose the correct one if you are using them in place of meals.

 

[Onefiver]

Is Berardi still doing the P+C or P+F but never C+F thing?

 

[trip]

90% of bars have sugar alcohol in them and will make you **** all over the place. for real. most anything over 14g will have that crap in it. stick to shakes, there's enough flavors out there to keep the monotony down.

when bulking i shoot for 1g per pound of body weight

 

[Dirt27]

With Berardi's site, I feel one would need to actually use one of his coaches to use his plan effectively, however, he has goobs of great info and downloads on there that are very useful. I have the original PN program here but haven't used it in some time.

Got the vegetable color chart today which I think is cool. Just not a fan of the "protein only/no carb" diets. Carbs are a necessity for exercise, I think you know I am not talking about candy bars and junk food, but it is misleading to those who do not invest in Berardi's program or do the research themselves.

I'm on Day 2 of his five day free trial, "which foods to eat". His recommendation if one is in a hurry is to make a berry smoothie for breakfast. Handful of strawberries, handful of blueberries, almond milk, protien powder and ice.

5 strawberries - 5g CHO and 20 calories, 0g Fat, 0g protein
1 cup blueberries - 21g CHO, 85 cals, 0.5g fat, 1g protein
1 cup almond milk - 8g CHO, 60 cals, 2.5g fat, 1g protein

Without adding the protein powder, that is an awful lot of CHO's (well only about 10% RDA) for someone pushing a "protein" diet. I agree with this smoothie as a great source of CHO replenishment in the morning and it is low in calories. My recommendation would be not adding the protein powder. This is probably where the "coach" would be beneficial for some, I just think it is misleading information. People all too often see "no carbs" and immediately do everything to add more "protein" and cut carbs completely. Adding more protein and cutting carbs usually leads people to add more fat.

"I can eat a rib-eye steak because I need to add more protein."
~60g protein and over the RDA of about 50g for protein based on the 2,000 calorie diet
Also, ~60g of fat which is right around the RDA
0 carbs

Where in that meal are CHO's bad? Does the benefit of that much protein outweigh the amount of fat that is attached to it? Specifically in overweight individuals who are trying to "lose fat"?

The information is out there and it is free. It just takes effort and dedication and as we have all pretty much agreed on it is a lifestyle change, not an overnight fix.

 

[wcoastsoftball]

Is Berardi still doing the P+C or P+F but never C+F thing?

Could be, I only use his site for the calculators currently, haven't really looked at his current philosophy. Plus his newsletters via email on different subjects can be helpful. Obviously things are not created equal for everyone, but a simple thought process I use is-
C+F for weight gain
P+C for maintenance
P+F for weight loss

That doesn't mean to ignore the other variable missing from each equation however.

 

[jdsebastian85]

Thanks again guys for the good info. As I stated I deliver drywall for a living so I am far from weak, but I want to bulk up/cut up all while losing my stomach fat. I just want to be stronger and healthier. I'm probably going to start next week on payday, and begin to get serious with the whole thing.

 

[djbaldmaninc]

Thanks again guys for the good info. As I stated I deliver drywall for a living so I am far from weak, but I want to bulk up/cut up all while losing my stomach fat. I just want to be stronger and healthier. I'm probably going to start next week on payday, and begin to get serious with the whole thing.

Not to be too critical, but just some helpful advice from someone who used to deliver drywall/building supplies too, cut out the sodas/energy drinks while working/driving. They are loaded with chemicals and sugar and will sabotage your plan from the start. I used to drink at least 3 Liters of Regular Mountain Dew a day while in that career and saw no ill effects from it (so I thought) from (caffeine/sugar etc). However, once I decided to 'get serious with my plan', I crashed hard. So take little steps and do your homework. It is possible to achieve your goals. A food/drink diary is very good advice (remember water intake too!).
Good luck!

 

[tap2284]

90% of bars have sugar alcohol in them and will make you **** all over the place. for real. most anything over 14g will have that crap in it. stick to shakes, there's enough flavors out there to keep the monotony down.

when bulking i shoot for 1g per pound of body weight

Agreed the bars can be not so good for you.

Question though, how come 1g per pound of body weight? Curious.

 

[Dirt27]

Question though, how come 1g per pound of body weight? Curious.

Just a recommendation, for the average person, I would recommend 1g/kg body weight and 2g/kg bodyweight for some one who is looking to bulk/bodybuilders (just like trip when he is bulking). Probably necessary for the rebuilding and repairing of muscle when working with much heavier loads.

 

[kayakmaker]

Just a recommendation, for the average person, I would recommend 1g/kg body weight and 2g/kg bodyweight for some one who is looking to bulk/bodybuilders (just like trip when he is bulking). Probably necessary for the rebuilding and repairing of muscle when working with much heavier loads.

Big difference in / lb and / kg

 

[Dirt27]

90% of bars have sugar alcohol in them and will make you **** all over the place. for real. most anything over 14g will have that crap in it. stick to shakes, there's enough flavors out there to keep the monotony down.

when bulking i shoot for 1g per pound of body weight

Big difference in / lb and / kg

1kg = 2.2 lbs correct? For arguments sake let's say 1kg = 2lbs

If someone weighs 200lbs (100kg) and they are just your average everyday Joe (moderate exercise, decent eating habits, etc...) I would recommend 1g protein/kg body weight, or 100 grams of protein/day (of course we could also say 0.5g/lb.)

If this same person began bodybuilding, or wanted to bulk up, I would recommend 2g protein/kg bodyweight (or 1g/lb. like trip had said when he is bulking)

Which math is easier? Where did you get confused?

 

[tap2284]

.8/kg of protein for average joe. Stated below a person can intake 2-2.5/kg based on 80kg person. Sorry it's a little long

A review of issues of dietary protein intake in humans.

Authors Bilsborough S, et al.
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Apr;16(2):129-52.

Abstract
Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g x kg(-1) x d(-1) is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g x kg(-1) x d(-1), which may exceed the liver's capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the "rabbit starvation syndrome"). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g x kg(-1) x d(-1)) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g x kg(-1) x d(-1), corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

 

[Onefiver]

If only it were so easy as to make a blanket statement. Context matters. Consider...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23645387

Amino acids are major nutrient regulators of muscle protein turnover. After protein ingestion, hyperaminoacidemia stimulates increased rates of skeletal muscle protein synthesis, suppresses muscle protein breakdown, and promotes net muscle protein accretion for several hours. These acute observations form the basis for strategized protein intake to promote lean mass accretion, or prevent lean mass loss over the long term. However, factors such as protein dose, protein source, and timing of intake are important in mediating the anabolic effects of amino acids on skeletal muscle and must be considered within the context of evaluating the reported efficacy of long-term studies investigating protein supplementation as part of a dietary strategy to promote lean mass accretion and/or prevent lean mass loss. Current research suggests that dietary protein supplementation can augment resistance exercise-mediated gains in skeletal muscle mass and strength and can preserve skeletal muscle mass during periods of diet-induced energy restriction. Perhaps less appreciated, protein supplementation can augment resistance training-mediated gains in skeletal muscle mass even in individuals habitually consuming 'adequate' (i.e., >0.8 g kg⁻¹ day⁻¹) protein. Additionally, overfeeding energy with moderate to high-protein intake (15-25 % protein or 1.8-3.0 g kg⁻¹ day⁻¹) is associated with lean, but not fat mass accretion, when compared to overfeeding energy with low protein intake (5 % protein or ~0.68 g kg⁻¹ day⁻¹). Amino acids represent primary nutrient regulators of skeletal muscle anabolism, capable of enhancing lean mass accretion with resistance exercise and attenuating the loss of lean mass during periods of energy deficit, although factors such as protein dose, protein source, and timing of intake are likely important in mediating these effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

Abstract
PURPOSE:
To examine the influence of dietary protein on lean body mass loss and performance during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss in athletes.
METHODS:
In a parallel design, 20 young healthy resistance-trained athletes were examined for energy expenditure for 1 wk and fed a mixed diet (15% protein, 100% energy) in the second week followed by a hypoenergetic diet (60% of the habitual energy intake), containing either 15% (approximately 1.0 g x kg(-1)) protein (control group, n = 10; CP) or 35% (approximately 2.3 g x kg(-1)) protein (high-protein group, n = 10; HP) for 2 wk. Subjects continued their habitual training throughout the study. Total, lean body, and fat mass, performance (squat jump, maximal isometric leg extension, one-repetition maximum (1RM) bench press, muscle endurance bench press, and 30-s Wingate test) and fasting blood samples (glucose, nonesterified fatty acids (NEFA), glycerol, urea, cortisol, free testosterone, free Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), and growth hormone), and psychologic measures were examined at the end of each of the 4 wk.
RESULTS:
Total (-3.0 +/- 0.4 and -1.5 +/- 0.3 kg for the CP and HP, respectively, P = 0.036) and lean body mass loss (-1.6 +/- 0.3 and -0.3 +/- 0.3 kg, P = 0.006) were significantly larger in the CP compared with those in the HP. Fat loss, performance, and most blood parameters were not influenced by the diet. Urea was higher in HP, and NEFA and urea showed a group x time interaction. Fatigue ratings and "worse than normal" scores on the Daily Analysis of Life Demands for Athletes were higher in HP.
CONCLUSIONS:
These results indicate that approximately 2.3 g x kg(-1) or approximately 35% protein was significantly superior to approximately 1.0 g x kg(-1) or approximately 15% energy protein for maintenance of lean body mass in young healthy athletes during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss.

 

[kayakmaker]

1kg = 2.2 lbs correct? For arguments sake let's say 1kg = 2lbs

If someone weighs 200lbs (100kg) and they are just your average everyday Joe (moderate exercise, decent eating habits, etc...) I would recommend 1g protein/kg body weight, or 100 grams of protein/day (of course we could also say 0.5g/lb.)

If this same person began bodybuilding, or wanted to bulk up, I would recommend 2g protein/kg bodyweight (or 1g/lb. like trip had said when he is bulking)

Which math is easier? Where did you get confused?

I was never confused. Just want to highlight for someone that might mistake 2.2/kg for 2.2/lb.
I should have clarified that I wasn't disagreeing with your post

 

[Onefiver]

At any rate, above we have much higher intake related to both (1) more lean mass/less fat mass in a hypercaloric scenario (ie "bulking") as well as (2) better lean mass preservation in a hypocaloric scenario (ie "cutting"). Note that both are talking about resistance trained subjects.

What's the overall diet look like? Total calories? What activities are involved? How long will the subject be doing a particular phase of a diet? What are the sources of protein? Age? etc etc etc

If anything, the trend in the research is towards higher protein intake rather than lower.

 

[T.Heck]

I been trying to lose weight and become healthier myself..... Whats been working the best for me but probably not the best idea.
Morning 1 cup of mixed blue straw and rasp berries, half a banana, 4oz pomjuice and water both and a table spoon of chia and flax seed. Probably to many carbs but I figured fruit is better for me then bacon and eggs.

Lunch scoop of garden of life protein powder and 8oz almond milk.

And dinner is my trouble meal so after the 2 meals above I have about 1300 cals left after consuming 700 for breakfast/lunch.
Im been struggling for awhile so had to make it simple

 

[T.Heck]

Good luck op, And if it was not already said jerky>protein bar for me..... leave the crap in protein bars out of your diet or get a good shake.

 

[Onefiver]

I get chubby, crash diet, get chubby again, crash diet, etc. It's fun...

 

[T.Heck]

Yeah i been gaining and gaining..... sick of it. I had to go extreme a little, I cant do the 6 small meals and all that.