ASA Runner sliding into/through second baseman

[BigSam]

Thoughts on this play? Specific scenario, runner on first with ground ball to SS. SS flips to 2B with runner maybe 5 steps off the bag. Runner slides hard to the inside of 2nd base "MLB style" and upends 2B who is coming off the bag to assess double play throw (no opportunity).

ASA - does this violate the no collision rule, since it was clearly deliberate, or is this still never called due to some "good hard baseball" nonsense?

League - this league has a specific "DO NOT COLLIDE" rule and the runner should have been ejected in my opinion. And yes, the rule isn't necessary if players and umps understood obstruction/interference/collision/wreck rules, but they don't. Players are just too stupid to do anything other than shout "he has to slide!" or "he slid!" Both of which make me insane(er) by the way. And umps are either lazy or bad. <--- this section really isn't a question, just commentary.

So anyway, do you have a call there? No interference if there's no opp at first, but how about the collision? Anyone ever call that?

 

[karas3434]

If he was sliding into the base I say no call... if his slide was clearly no where near the base and only meant to break up the play then I could see a call being made. We've had slightly similar plays and our rules say slide or give yourself up. Umps pretty standard in saying the player and runner each have equal right to the base. So my guess would be it would depend on the area/direction of the slide. I also dont see an attempted slide resulting in contact as a "collision".

 

[NCASAUmp]

It's softball. Some contact is to be expected. However, if it's clear (and I mean clear) that the runner was attempting to slide into the fielder and not the base, I'd have an ejection and a possible out for interference.

The litmus test on that one would be pretty high, though. I'd have to have zero doubt in my mind that he was going after the fielder.

 

[rhound50]

To me it has to be really clear that the runner is sliding to contact the fielder and not to the bag.

 

[Sully]

Are you trying to call a runner sliding into a bag and making contact with a middle infielder a collision? By chance, are you the 2nd baseman in question or related to him?

I'm also pretty sure the ASA version of your rule mentions "crashing into the runner" when it talks about interference. Sliding might be interference, but I still wouldn't consider it crashing. Maybe your league rule has specific wording you didn't mention.

 

[b#7]

Thoughts on this play? Specific scenario, runner on first with ground ball to SS. SS flips to 2B with runner maybe 5 steps off the bag. Runner slides hard to the inside of 2nd base "MLB style" and upends 2B who is coming off the bag to assess double play throw (no opportunity).

ASA - does this violate the no collision rule, since it was clearly deliberate, or is this still never called due to some "good hard baseball" nonsense?

League - this league has a specific "DO NOT COLLIDE" rule and the runner should have been ejected in my opinion. And yes, the rule isn't necessary if players and umps understood obstruction/interference/collision/wreck rules, but they don't. Players are just too stupid to do anything other than shout "he has to slide!" or "he slid!" Both of which make me insane(er) by the way. And umps are either lazy or bad. <--- this section really isn't a question, just commentary.

So anyway, do you have a call there? No interference if there's no opp at first, but how about the collision? Anyone ever call that?

This is just my opinion. To me it's good hard baseball IF he's attemping to take out the runner and able to make the play on the base, if there is no play on the base then it would be up to the judgement of the umpire but would probably call interference with an out . As someone who has played the majority of my 23 years of softball playing 2B, SS or Middle man I always tried to put the bag between me and the runner so the runner would have to slide through the bag to get to me while turning two. I had a short stop who I played with back in '96 who had his ankle dislocated when he stepped across the bag planted and threw, the runner slid into that leg but the runner was sliding to the bag. I was behind the play in Left Center backing up when I heard bones popping and saw the whole play.

 

[BigSam]

I'm not the 2nd baseman in that scenario, nor related, and I'm pretty sure I never played 2B in my long history of BB and SB. That aside, it seems pretty clear from the replies that nobody is terribly offended by the takeout slide so long as the runner gets some base with the fielder. I somewhat expected that.

ISTR that college baseball changed their rule that the runner can't slide... past the base maybe? In an effort to stop aggressive breaking up the double play activity. But I'm not much of a baseball guy so I'm not certain about that.

I also recall seeing a teaching video where the 2B receiving the throw planted on the CF side of the bag, then pushed off away from the runner to make the throw. This took the 2B out of the path of the runner and gave a good throwing lane. But asking adult SB players to have technique is absurd.

Anyway, appreciate the feedback. I'll soften my bad attitude towards this, and just give a warning for collision per league rules. I think.

 

[jsam21238]

I'm not the 2nd baseman in that scenario, nor related, and I'm pretty sure I never played 2B in my long history of BB and SB. That aside, it seems pretty clear from the replies that nobody is terribly offended by the takeout slide so long as the runner gets some base with the fielder. I somewhat expected that.

ISTR that college baseball changed their rule that the runner can't slide... past the base maybe? In an effort to stop aggressive breaking up the double play activity. But I'm not much of a baseball guy so I'm not certain about that.

I also recall seeing a teaching video where the 2B receiving the throw planted on the CF side of the bag, then pushed off away from the runner to make the throw. This took the 2B out of the path of the runner and gave a good throwing lane. But asking adult SB players to have technique is absurd.

Anyway, appreciate the feedback. I'll soften my bad attitude towards this, and just give a warning for collision per league rules. I think.

The NCAA baseball rule is that the runner must slide directly into the base. Contact with the fielder may be made before or after the base, as long as it is within the width of the base.

The high school baseball rule is the same, except for the fielder is also protected beyond the base.

As for your situation, I would get your league's definition of a collision. In my opinion not all contact is a collision.

 

[Jimmy34]

If you purposely take out a fielder in league softball to avoid a DP, you are a tool...do it around here and you'll probably not make it back to the dugout...clean slide straight to the bag, no issues...

 

[dtrotd]

How does a runner take out a runner to avoid a double play?
Ahhhh NY

If you fight in SLOPITCH...you're a tool!

If the runner purposely takes out a "fielder" to break up the double play!

There ya go bud

 

[BretMan]

Are you trying to call a runner sliding into a bag and making contact with a middle infielder a collision? By chance, are you the 2nd baseman in question or related to him?

I'm also pretty sure the ASA version of your rule mentions "crashing into the runner" when it talks about interference. Sliding might be interference, but I still wouldn't consider it crashing. Maybe your league rule has specific wording you didn't mention.

Note that the ASA interference "crash rule" refers to a runner who REMAINS ON HIS FEET and crashes into a fielder who is holding the ball waiting to make a tag.

If the runner is sliding, it doesn't meet the ASA definition of "a crash".

It might be interference, if the slide is so far away from the base that the runner is judged to have been going after the fielder instead of reaching the base. ASA offers no definition of "a legal slide" and has no "Force Play Slide Rule" like mentioned above for baseball. That leaves the issue of interference up to the judgment of the umpire. A good rule of thumb for starters might be if the runner could at all reach/touch the base during his slide.

If it is interference, and assuming that this sliding runner has already been put out, then the runner closest to home is also called out. If the runner was not yet out when he interfered, then the immediately trailing runner would also be out.

To eject the runner you would have to judge that the contact was "flagrant". I would need to see something more than a normal slide for that, even if it was away from the base. For instance, if the runner slashed or kicked at the fielder, or came in on a "flying leap" without even touching the ground.

 

[joncon]

I've had more collisions than I can remember and thankfully I have never really been hurt. A couple guys have sustained minor injuries bouncing off me. It's a sport and sports injuries are going to happen.

I've been upended at 2B a few times on a legit slide. I've been drawn into the basepath at 1B and home plate because of an errant throw. It happens.

Unless the runner comes in cleats up, you just roll with it and get back to the game.

It has been getting funny over the past decade because I am getting older. People seem WAY more concerned with me now than they used to. On a minor collision where we end up in the dirt, they always seem far too concerned, presumably because I'm officially a senior citizen Dude, we just fell down. It happens.

 

[irishmafia]

I've had more collisions than I can remember and thankfully I have never really been hurt. A couple guys have sustained minor injuries bouncing off me. It's a sport and sports injuries are going to happen.

I've been upended at 2B a few times on a legit slide. I've been drawn into the basepath at 1B and home plate because of an errant throw. It happens.

Unless the runner comes in cleats up, you just roll with it and get back to the game.

It has been getting funny over the past decade because I am getting older. People seem WAY more concerned with me now than they used to. On a minor collision where we end up in the dirt, they always seem far too concerned, presumably because I'm officially a senior citizen Dude, we just fell down. It happens.

You're on the wrong board.

 

[Carbone13]

You're on the wrong board.

Joncon has been playing for longer than most of us have been alive and he can still swing it and brings a lot of savvy to his team. Just putting it out there.

 

[joncon]

You're on the wrong board.

You can be replaced by a rubber mat.


And, thanks Carbone! We've had some good times here!

 

[irishmafia]

Joncon has been playing for longer than most of us have been alive and he can still swing it and brings a lot of savvy to his team. Just putting it out there.

And I've probably umpired longer than he has been playing. So what?

Softball is not a contact sport. And the rules are there to protect those playing the game. That doesn't mean there are no collisions, but they offer a legitimate avenue to play the game. Too many crybaby excuses when idiots do things that jeopardize someone's ability to get up and go to work the next day to support their families.

 

[Hiltz]

I also recall seeing a teaching video where the 2B receiving the throw planted on the CF side of the bag, then pushed off away from the runner to make the throw. This took the 2B out of the path of the runner and gave a good throwing lane. But asking adult SB players to have technique is absurd.

I play in the most recreational of rec leagues, and this ^ is how the majority of guys do it. The only way you can get taken out this way is if the runner goes through the bag (making it obvious), or a bad throw takes you off-line towards first. Then you get to jump and Robbie Alomar that sumbitch.

If you purposely take out a fielder in league softball to avoid a DP, you are a tool...do it around here and you'll probably not make it back to the dugout...clean slide straight to the bag, no issues...

Too many crybaby excuses when idiots do things that jeopardize someone's ability to get up and go to work the next day to support their families.

Agreed, some people take things way too seriously. I generally slide straight into second and come up short of the bag, I only slide to clear the throwing lane so I don't eat the ball.