ASA Strike Zone

[dmiller2345]

I play in an ASA sanctioned Rec League and we are constantly having issues with the umpires and strike zones - I know, I know, arguing balls and strikes!!!

Anyhow, can someone clarify the "strike zone" for me in ASA slowpitch? We are constantly having the umpires point to the ground and call "deep" when the ball is clearly coming in below the hitters back shoulder and we are constantly having the umpires call strikes when the ball is clearly over the back shoulder of my 5' 7" player just because the ball landed close enough to the back of the plate.

Is the "strike zone" above the front knee and below the back shoulder? and does it really matter where it lands behind the plate as long as it crosses through the "strike zone"?

I would like to be able to discuss this intelligently at our off-season softball coaches meeting.

Thanks!

 

[trip]

between the front knee / back shoulder as it crosses the plate has been our go to as long as I've been around.

if your umpires suck then introduce the strike mat and see how quick they'll ***** about wanting to go back to how it was

 

[eddieq]

In a league where people ***** about balls and strikes, adding the strike mat will only shift the bitching to "that's too low/high - why you no call illegal?" and then "you called it illegal - why you no call it sooner?"

People will ***** and moan no matter what.

But the answer to your question is height between the front knee and back shoulder over the plate.

 

[dmiller2345]

A strike mat is definitely out of the question!
Sounds like some training is in store for our umpires.

 

[dttruax]

Ah, yes. Invisible mat ball: the tool of lazy and uneducated umpires. I like to ask them where in the rule book or mechanics guide is the term "deep".

 

[Sully]

I play in an ASA sanctioned Rec League and we are constantly having issues with the umpires and strike zones - I know, I know, arguing balls and strikes!!!

Anyhow, can someone clarify the "strike zone" for me in ASA slowpitch? We are constantly having the umpires point to the ground and call "deep" when the ball is clearly coming in below the hitters back shoulder and we are constantly having the umpires call strikes when the ball is clearly over the back shoulder of my 5' 7" player just because the ball landed close enough to the back of the plate.

Is the "strike zone" above the front knee and below the back shoulder? and does it really matter where it lands behind the plate as long as it crosses through the "strike zone"?

I would like to be able to discuss this intelligently at our off-season softball coaches meeting.

Thanks!

A couple people have already mentioned the strike zone. As for the mat, they may actually like it. The reason so many leagues use mats is it pretty much eliminates the whole judging where it crosses. As long as it's not illegal, if it hits the mat it's a strike.

A lot of inexperienced umpires will call the regular strike zone like it's mat ball paying attention to where it lands, and often pointing where it landed. If you are trying to get people to hit the ball, it's much easier with a standard ASA strike zone without the mat because it's where it crosses and pitches that cross and land outside where the mat will be can still be strikes.

It would be good to send them to an actual ASA clinic if possible. They really will learn a lot there if they want to get better.

 

[irishmafia]

Using a mat to determine a strike is for pretenders.

 

[sjury]

There are more batters that point to the ground to argue balls and strikes than umpires.

No mat and the strike zone changes for every batter, depending on their height. So some of those balls that land "deep" on one batter may be strikes on others, or more famously, "Hey blue that wasn't a strike last inning." from the dugout. "You're right, it wasn't a strike for the last batter, either, thank you."

Mat ball the strike zone is exactly the same for every batter. So the tall guys may have to go golfing and the shirt guys may have to tomahawk the ball.

It's the lesser of two evils for the umpires and the players.

 

[irishmafia]

There are more batters that point to the ground to argue balls and strikes than umpires.

And if I had a response, it would be, "yeah, cute dimple. PLAY"

No mat and the strike zone changes for every batter, depending on their height. So some of those balls that land "deep" on one batter may be strikes on others, or more famously, "Hey blue that wasn't a strike last inning." from the dugout. "You're right, it wasn't a strike for the last batter, either, thank you."

Disagree. The strike zone is the same, just with flexible dimensions. It is always the front knee, back shoulder across any part of the plate. Same for every batter.

Mat ball the strike zone is exactly the same for every batter. So the tall guys may have to go golfing and the shirt guys may have to tomahawk the ball.

It's the lesser of two evils for the umpires and the players.

That would be correct for weak pretenders and pitiful umpires.

 

[Avalon06]

Follow up question

A year or so ago, one of the umps posted a drawing which depicted the strike zone in ASA (with the batter standing at home plate), i have used the search function however, I can't locate that drawing. Can someone help? The reason for my request is that last week we were playing and the ump called a pitch that hit the middle of the plate a strike (we do not use the mat). I told him I was not going to argue the strike, I just needed clarification as to why that was a strike. His response was that the ball crossed between the front knee and back shoulder and therefore it was a strike. It was a short batter (about 5 ft 5) and he was at the very front of the batters box. Then I said it was my understanding from the rule that the ball had to cross the plate, he said no, as long as it crosses between the front knee and back shoulder it is a strike, my next question was, so if the batter is short enough and it crosses between the front knee and back shoulder the ball could land in front of the plate and be a strike, he said yes, I said thank you for the clarification and went back to the dugout. Isn't the strike zone as if the batter was even with the plate, not where he stands in the box?

 

[BretMan]

Yes, it's the area over home plate, not where the batter stands. And, ASA rules say that a pitch that hits the plate is a ball (in non-mat ball).

 

[Avalon06]

Thank you, I didn't want to argue (never turns out well), I just wanted to get his interpretation. And in the umps defense; he said he would check with his UIC and determine if he was correct; that, is all I can ask for

 

[irishmafia]

Thank you, I didn't want to argue (never turns out well), I just wanted to get his interpretation. And in the umps defense; he said he would check with his UIC and determine if he was correct; that, is all I can ask for

WOW! Not only is that not an interpretation, it is protestable.

And to be quite honest, an umpire who doesn't know the strike zone shouldn't be on the field umpiring. It is one of the first things taught to any umpire assuming they actually attend a clinic(s) they are supposed to attend.

 

[Avalon06]

You are correct, it was strange. When he told me that, I didn't have a response. Although as I said, I wasn't going to argue, it never turns out well. To be blunt we beat the opposition by 21 runs.

I have been playing some form of ball for 56 years and I never had this happen before. As a follow-up, he did come over to me Monday evening and tell me he was wrong. He did not ump or game. He is new and told me he screwed up. He said he learned something and won't make the same mistake. I said thank you and moved on.

Did I; however, handle it the correct way to begin with (for the umps)?

I know you can't argue balls and strikes, so asking why it was a strike was the correct approach I assume, or should I have handled it another way?

Always trying to learn how to approach the ump with questions/concerns, it is a difficult enough job without some a-hole on your back.

 

[irishmafia]

I know you can't argue balls and strikes, so asking why it was a strike was the correct approach I assume, or should I have handled it another way?

Always trying to learn how to approach the ump with questions/concerns, it is a difficult enough job without some a-hole on your back.

You were not questioning the umpires judgment, but his interpretation of the rule he was using to determine a strike or ball.

 

[BigSam]

Ah the strike zone. How many of you umps have outfielders that complain about strikes from 250' away? That's just the BEST. Anyway...

PLATE - some leagues a ball, some a strike. Around here almost always a ball, and certainly by ASA standards with no mat it is a ball. If you don't know, just ask "hey blue, plate a strike in this league?" That's neutral enough, if you haven't already angered him or her.

Some key points that batters seem to misunderstand:

IN A NORMAL STANCE - this means if you are 6' tall, but crouch over like a sloth, your strike zone is still that of a 6' batter in a NORMAL stance.

OVER ANY PART OF THE PLATE - read this as "not where it crosses the batter, or where it lands, but where it crosses the actual plate." If you stand forward in the box, pitches that seem quite high can be strikes on you. Because your strike zone doesn't follow you around. It stays over the plate. If I had a nickel for everyone that didn't get this I'd be rich. Also the ball is what, 5" wide? There's no "center of the ball" in the rule. That means the plate is a lot wider (by about 10") than you might think.

Last night was my league's championship game. And one of the batters watched strike three sail right down the center of the plate at his numbers. And then stared at me when I called it a strike. When I asked his team after the game if he was serious, they said "it can't be a strike if the catcher has to stand up to catch it." :wtf2: Say what? What the hell makes anyone think it matters what the catcher is doing? SIGH. Players.

And while I agree that many of us umpires could use a clinic on the strike zone, the people who REALLY need that clinic are the PLAYERS. Seriously... how can you have no idea at all how a strike is determined and then question when we call strikes? Read the rule. It isn't that hard.