Tech question: Lighter bats vs heavier bats

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#25

Addicted to Softballfans
Seems like there's less and less 30 oz bats and now fewer 28oz bats. Being a player who always preferred 28oz bats (og Juggernaut, J2, EVOs, RD28, Mayhems, Mutants, Freaks, and 30oz Extended and Flex, etc.) I have a hard time adjusting to lighter bats and now more and more bats are coming out "hot out of the wrapper" and BP means they break quicker.

Is there any truth to today's bats being hotter and if made heavier, they wouldn't pass testing? All I know is trying to hit with lighter bats causes me to pop up a lot, especially since I can't really BP anymore. I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place so to speak. Time to hang it up? lmao jk just been out of the loop the past couple years and looking for some insight. Thanks
 
RustyShakleford

RustyShakleford

Well-Known Member
am i missing something or are 28oz bats not being made anymore? i see 28s options for almost all new bats now

sounds like you're listening to some monsta propoganda
 
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scottydoesnt

scottydoesnt

Extra Hitter
I never understand why these questions arise. I am a smaller player and have always preferred 27oz-28oz bats. Could I hit with lighter bats ? Sure. But slightly heavier is what I like and hit best with, so why change.
 
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single wally

single wally

Professional Amateur
I'm guessing the trend for manufacturers to eliminate 30s in some lines has more to due with demand than being able to pass testing. 28 is still a standard weight so not sure what you mean by there are fewer 28s.
 
scottydoesnt

scottydoesnt

Extra Hitter
If anything, I'd say there are more 28s available because they are usually the last to sell and can be bought on clearance.
 
MarlSrSoftball

MarlSrSoftball

Into Semi-Retirement Still activebut not League
single wally said:
I'm guessing the trend for manufacturers to eliminate 30s in some lines has more to due with demand than being able to pass testing. 28 is still a standard weight so not sure what you mean by there are fewer 28s.
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Going back to my PST days the one reason they stopped making 30 oz ASA was because it wouldn't pass the ASA test. Another clue as to that being the reason is 30 oz are still being offered in just about all models in USSSA bats.
 
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JP21

JP21

Member
why is it 30oz won't pass in ASA compared to say a 28oz??

There is no ASA in my neck of the woods so i don't get exposed to too mush ASA rules and regs
 
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MarlSrSoftball

MarlSrSoftball

Into Semi-Retirement Still activebut not League
JP21 said:
why is it 30oz won't pass in ASA compared to say a 28oz??

There is no ASA in my neck of the woods so i don't get exposed to too mush ASA rules and regs
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Basically because of the extra weight on the end. Comes thru the hitting zone with greater bat speed. Over the years I have had many combinations of 27/28 and 30's and the 30's always outdistance their light counterparts.
 
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2

#25

Addicted to Softballfans
MarlSrSoftball said:
Going back to my PST days the one reason they stopped making 30 oz ASA was because it wouldn't pass the ASA test. Another clue as to that being the reason is 30 oz are still being offered in just about all models in USSSA bats.
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Definitely worded better than my post lol. A broke in Easton SCN3 (Flex) I could absolutely mash with it just like the others I mentioned and you could enjoy a good evening of BP for days on end without worrying about your bat breaking the same season you bought it
 
M

msw4indy

Addicted to Softballfans
I prefer 29 or 30 balanced bats. Seems like you can still find new line in an endloaded 30 but balanced only up to 28. That's why I'm still swinging a Reebok Barrage in a 29 or an OG Z2 in a 30. I know eventually I'll have to swing a 28, and have a couple waiting in the wings....I'm unsure if testing is a reason heavy balanced bats aren't made anymore, but I would imagine it has a lot more to do with a lack of demand. We are a dying breed so to speak;)
 
Ballisttic

Ballisttic

Star Player
30oz bats can pass any testing but you see less and less company's offering them do to sales being low on them. Im not talking about sr bats the old guys love big heavy bats.
 
vlcmstnaz

vlcmstnaz

volcom stone az
RustyShakleford said:
this is the answer
View attachment 34092
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Makes sense.
But, if I understand correctly, these heavier bats or more EL bats are considered to "fail" based on science/math, not as a result of true "field" testing.

Lots of assumptions here (I believe they are safe assumptions), but this would mean that the lightest bat manufactured in an individual line/series (assuming as me construction as the rest, just lighter and/or least endloaded) is the worst option (assuming swing speed is only slightly affected).
 
vlcmstnaz

vlcmstnaz

volcom stone az
While it seems (no proof that I know of) that Demarini modified construction between the 26/27 and 28/30 oz Juggies, I doubt most manufacturers (including Demarini on their other lines) change tech from weight to weight. Meaning you are handicapping yourself by swinging the lighter weight (if you can swing a heavier bat without reducing swing speed).
 
RustyShakleford

RustyShakleford

Well-Known Member
swinging the heaviest weght you can the fastest has always been the mantra. there has to be a rate of deminishing return on swinging too light of a bat
 
RustyShakleford

RustyShakleford

Well-Known Member
it all makes sence. the testing uses a set speed the ball is fired at the bat no matter the bat weight. that speed takes into account a standard swing speed + pitch speed. a normal person will swing a 30oz bat slower than a 26oz bat, but the testing assumes they are swinging them at the same speed. so a heavier bat would test higher right?
 
RustyShakleford

RustyShakleford

Well-Known Member
so because of those differences in how a heavier bat will swing in the real world they have to take into account the MOI and COM. then because a heavier bat will have a higher MOI, its harder for them to pass testing
 
Scottishheat

Scottishheat

Yep
RustyShakleford said:
apparently MOI and COM are taken into consideration. which makes perfect sense
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This is the answer. When I've swung at the Easton lab, the unmarked bats have a sticker with the MOI written on them and other calculations. This is all taken into consideration with whether or not the bat would actually pass. When the numbers come back too high for certain weights they are virtually "unpassable".

If you want to geek out on this, here's a physics article - actually a pretty fun read:

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/bat-moi.html

One important thing to catch in the article is the "moments of a swing" with the wrist snap being, virtually, the most important. A guy/gal can have a fast swing but due to MOI, if you can learn to snap your wrists well the ball will have a faster exit speed. And we've probably all seen this in action...some big lumberjack who can swing a 30 oz. but doesn't get much pop because he's not using his body properly to create a proper pendulum swing.

This is also why small guys like Bryson Baker, Steven Lloyd, et al. hit the crap out of the ball.
 
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vlcmstnaz

vlcmstnaz

volcom stone az
The science and math make sense (I think). But I do wonder if they've accounted for the lower swing speed that goes along with the heavier weight?

Also curious to know if any manufacturer changes ANY tech in a bat other than handle and endcap weight when producing heavier/lighter bats, which is assumed to have been the case with the Demarini Juggy and why the 28/30oz were so much less sought after. If not, the heaviest/most EL bat in a specific line that you can swing well (accurately) without losing significant bat speed WILL be the best.

(I honestly don't know what the MonsTard is thinking making only super light bats. I don't get it. I could see making 1 or 2 light bats for a niche market, but all of them?)
 
RustyShakleford

RustyShakleford

Well-Known Member
i've never seen anything in the documentation i've seen over the years about compensating the swing speed based on the weight of the bat
 
MarlSrSoftball

MarlSrSoftball

Into Semi-Retirement Still activebut not League
Most of this all makes sense. The only thing I know is I outhit my lighter bats with my heavier bats. For example My 1 oz endload 30 oz DC41 outhits my 30 oz .5oz end load Freak52. The DC41 just fells better through the hitting zone.
On using your wrist action I totally agree. I hit better with a short swing with a wrist snap at the end than I do with a full swing with no wrist snap
 
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#25

Addicted to Softballfans
I prefer the heavier bats too. A good example was when the Miken MV-1 came out. I picked up the 28oz maxload and a buddy bought the 27oz balanced bat. There was about a good 30 to 50 feet difference between the two bats with the 28oz maxload having more distance and it didn't matter who was swinging it. It improved distance for everybody. Needless to say, my buddy traded bats with me for a Freak 98 when I moved and couldn't use the 28oz maxload any more.
 
sscroggin

sscroggin

Yada Yada Yada
Which makes me wonder since Demarini messed up and shipped some 2015 juggies without the handle weights wouldn't that change its planned and tested moi? My juggy was supposed to be a 27oz and on scale with tape its 25.5oz's.
 
vlcmstnaz

vlcmstnaz

volcom stone az
sscroggin said:
Which makes me wonder since Demarini messed up and shipped some 2015 juggies without the handle weights wouldn't that change its planned and tested moi? My juggy was supposed to be a 27oz and on scale with tape its 25.5oz's.
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I don't know if I understand all the maths. So, would the '15 Juggy mistake be a positive or negative result? Which wins out, the decrease in weight or the increased endload due to lack of handle weight?
 
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