Any Umpire positioning

[baseman]

To the Umpires on here. What is the best way to ask the ump to change the position they watch the plays in.

example. We had a play at third and the field ump followed the runner from 2nd to the bag for the call but in doing so stopped our player from throwing to 2nd for the double play. he was a young ump (maybe 15-16) so how to get him to position himself better as he almost ate a ball from our third baseman who has the hardest throw on our team. Should i get the plate ump to let him know or just go have a heart to heart with him between innings.

 

[baldgriff]

Two man mechanics are something that take time to learn and require communications between the team of umpires on the field. Ideally that base umpire is positioned in such a way that he can view the bases without moving to much. This sounds like a situation where the base umpire just got aggressive for the first call and then got himself stuck, not thinking about game situations.

If you are the plate umpire, the two of you need to talk about how you are going to handle the infield and where you want him positioned with guys on 1 & 2. Communicate before the game and between innings, he's your partner and when he gets stuck you both get stuck. I always talk with my partner between innings to make sure we are on the same page. I wish we got to use 2 man more frequently, most of my stuff is one man.

Oh and its ok for the two umpires to talk during play also. Frequently when Im on the plate, I let my partner know its ok to release and Ive got the lead runner coming to me at third.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I think the OP was coming from the perspective of a player approaching an umpire on his position, not umpire-to-umpire conversations.

Believe me when I tell you that you probably don't need to tell the umpire if it's just one time. Umpires are self-reflective by nature, and no one is harder on an umpire than him or herself. We know when we've blown our positioning, and we know when we screw up. Trust me, you don't need to tell us.

If the umpire is so green that they're constantly putting themselves in the crossfire, then you may just want to say, "hey, Blue... I was just about to make that throw, but I was afraid I'd take your head off." They'll get the hint.

But if it's a rare incident, just let it go. The umpire probably already knows.

 

[mazzamouth]

What assoc? I know ASA and USSSA use different mechanics, on where we stand.. I use USSSA mechanic when I umpire ASA cause I just dont like were ASA has you stand.

But yea like NCASAUMP said, just let him know, Hey blue you were kind of in the way and I might have hitten you with the ball... should work.

 

[NCASAUmp]

What assoc? I know ASA and USSSA use different mechanics, on where we stand.. I use USSSA mechanic when I umpire ASA cause I just dont like were ASA has you stand.

But yea like NCASAUMP said, just let him know, Hey blue you were kind of in the way and I might have hitten you with the ball... should work.

Well, it doesn't really matter much. As an umpire, I do my best to stay out of the way. Last thing I want to do is block a throw or a fielder's view of the ball coming at them.

 

[Sonic625]

Well if they were trying to make a play at 2nd or first after the runner to 3rd was out the ump made a mistake because the fielding ump has calls at 1st and 2nd unless the runner is theonly runner to 3rd, and then it's a communication issue with the 2 umps who has the play at 3rd

 

[Fin09]

Staying inside the baseline helps- meaning towards the mound. If I think an infielder has a play, and has to throw close to me, I drop to one knee, or squat down to give him a throwing lane. Knowing where to go to stay out of a throw to another bag is something you just learn instinctively. I don't mind it if someone asks me to reposition myself, such as when I'm stationed near 2nd, and a RC asks me to take a step to the right or left. No big deal.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Well if they were trying to make a play at 2nd or first after the runner to 3rd was out the ump made a mistake because the fielding ump has calls at 1st and 2nd unless the runner is theonly runner to 3rd, and then it's a communication issue with the 2 umps who has the play at 3rd

Unless it's ASA fast pitch or modified. In that case, the BU is in the C position (by shortstop) and has the first play on the infield, even if it's at 3rd.

Doesn't explain why the BU is inside the diamond, though.

 

[baseman]

Thanks for the responses guys. It was the whole game that the young man was doing it.

 

[DeputyUICHousto]

I'd like a bit more information...

To the Umpires on here. What is the best way to ask the ump to change the position they watch the plays in.

example. We had a play at third and the field ump followed the runner from 2nd to the bag for the call but in doing so stopped our player from throwing to 2nd for the double play. he was a young ump (maybe 15-16) so how to get him to position himself better as he almost ate a ball from our third baseman who has the hardest throw on our team. Should i get the plate ump to let him know or just go have a heart to heart with him between innings.

You say it was the base umpire who took the play at 3rd on a runner coming from 2nd...was this fast pitch or slow pitch? Was the runner the batter/runner? In ASA slowpitch mechanics, the only time the base umpire should take a runner at 3rd base is if is it is the batter/runner. If this was a runner that started on 2nd base the base umpire shouldn't have been there.

Another aspect of this play is where was the ball coming from?

 

[VF500Racer]

He's too young to be umping
He should be playing!

In outlaw league, I'll stay behind 1st base line and a few steps
after the plate (b/c of the bats) on no outs
and somewhere near 2nd base on grass but
no close to any IF's with runner at first.

Usually, home ump got home and 3rd and final IF calls.

1st base ump gets 1st and 2nd + final OF calls.

 

[NCASAUmp]

He's too young to be umping
He should be playing!

In outlaw league, I'll stay behind 1st base line and a few steps
after the plate (b/c of the bats) on no outs
and somewhere near 2nd base on grass but
no close to any IF's with runner at first.

Usually, home ump got home and 3rd and final IF calls.

1st base ump gets 1st and 2nd + final OF calls.

Hey now... I started umpiring at age 15!

 

[chiefgator]

I cannot figure out how he got into the line of fire from a 3B to throw to 2B... He must have started out in a bad position to begin with...

 

[NCASAUmp]

I cannot figure out how he got into the line of fire from a 3B to throw to 2B... He must have started out in a bad position to begin with...

Well, it makes me wonder what ruleset was being used. ASA? USSSA? NSA?

 

[AWall13]

Not even gonna read the OP. Just here to say I hate lazy umpires who dont move from behind the plate to get into position to make a call

 

[NCASAUmp]

Not even gonna read the OP. Just here to say I hate lazy umpires who dont move from behind the plate to get into position to make a call

And you quite clearly didn't read the OP. This has nothing to do with the plate umpire.

 

[AWall13]

And you quite clearly didn't read the OP. This has nothing to do with the plate umpire.

Most our leagues are single umpire and we have a lot of "that guy who wont move more than 2 steps from behind the plate. As for the thread. I has no idea how an ump gets in the way of a throw from 3rd to 2nd

 

[USSSA]

never will forget the first time I collided with a player, was working the field in a slow pitch game, was backing up and connected with the shortstop, that is the last time I ever got in the way of a player

I learned to always talk with the defense to find out what they are planning to do, like listening to the players to find who is going to cover the bag, etc

 

[chiefgator]

Well, it makes me wonder what ruleset was being used. ASA? USSSA? NSA?

I have no idea about NSA, but there should be no situation in ASA nor USSSA that would put him in that position.

Many guys still use the OLD USSSA "inside" mechanics on the pitch. I guess they are stuck in their ways. I never start "inside" any more.

I believe the mechanics were changed because there were too many issues with umps getting hit by batted balls and getting in the way of the throw from SS to 1B. I don't have any documentation of that, but I know when I was using the "inside" mechanics, I was constantly dodging throws and batted balls.

 

[mazzamouth]

I have no idea about NSA, but there should be no situation in ASA nor USSSA that would put him in that position.

Many guys still use the OLD USSSA "inside" mechanics on the pitch. I guess they are stuck in their ways. I never start "inside" any more.

I believe the mechanics were changed because there were too many issues with umps getting hit by batted balls and getting in the way of the throw from SS to 1B. I don't have any documentation of that, but I know when I was using the "inside" mechanics, I was constantly dodging throws and batted balls.

I have been umpiring USSSA since 2000,and have been to "B" worlds... I still stand right next to 2nd base, that way I can see the touch at 2nd on the double play, then pivot for the force at 1st. I have only been hit 1 time, and that was because a pitcher touched it.. Hell in when I worked "A" games I still stood inside right next to 2nd.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I have been umpiring USSSA since 2000,and have been to "B" worlds... I still stand right next to 2nd base, that way I can see the touch at 2nd on the double play, then pivot for the force at 1st. I have only been hit 1 time, and that was because a pitcher touched it.. Hell in when I worked "A" games I still stood inside right next to 2nd.

Second base? Or the second baseman?

Doesn't that put you forward of an infielder?

 

[baseman]

It is a Church league using nsa umps. The runner came from second with players on 2nd and 1st. he was behind the IF players to begin with then moved to follow the runner from 2nd.

 

[chiefgator]

Second base? Or the second baseman?

Doesn't that put you forward of an infielder?

Sec. 5. SPECIFIC DUTIES OF THE BASE UMPIRES:
A. He shall take such positions on the playing field which will give him the
best angles and positions for using his judgment in rendering base decisions.
This will be in agreement with and cooperation of the umpire-in-chief. Whenever there are any runners on base, he must position himself even with second base or outside the diamond.

I am always "outside the diamond". When I am even with the bag, I have gotten myself into trouble with the SS making a throw or a play near the bag. I do not want to back up to make way and I don't want to go forward either as i feel I have to turn my back on something...

When I am outside, I can see any play at 2B and have a good angle for a force at 1B.

I really prefer the ASA (and NF etc...) mechanics over USSSA. I am not sure why USSSA feels that way is better, but that is the way they want it done.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I am always "outside the diamond". When I am even with the bag, I have gotten myself into trouble with the SS making a throw or a play near the bag. I do not want to back up to make way and I don't want to go forward either as i feel I have to turn my back on something...

When I am outside, I can see any play at 2B and have a good angle for a force at 1B.

I really prefer the ASA (and NF etc...) mechanics over USSSA. I am not sure why USSSA feels that way is better, but that is the way they want it done.

I agree, starting from B will put you in a better position when you have a potential double play. Starting in line with 2B with multiple runners on will take you too far away from 1B to make a good call if they try to turn two. After all, which play is going to end up being closer: the play at 2B, or the one at 1B?

 

[mazzamouth]

I agree, starting from B will put you in a better position when you have a potential double play. Starting in line with 2B with multiple runners on will take you too far away from 1B to make a good call if they try to turn two. After all, which play is going to end up being closer: the play at 2B, or the one at 1B?

Yes even with the bag at 2nd...

If you step toward 1st base you get a good look... trust me it has worked for years...LOL your really not far away. This is actually USSSA mechanics.

 

[mazzamouth]

Mind you I also umpire College baseball, and has spent probably 4k in clinic/camps and Im going to the pro school which is 4k its self.. Mechanics and Positioning is big for me...

 

[NCASAUmp]

Yes even with the bag at 2nd...

If you step toward 1st base you get a good look... trust me it has worked for years...LOL your really not far away. This is actually USSSA mechanics.

And on a double play, you're looking at the throw from behind. I prefer a good 45 degree angle on the play. You can time the ball and the runner better that way.

 

[mazzamouth]

And on a double play, you're looking at the throw from behind. I prefer a good 45 degree angle on the play. You can time the ball and the runner better that way.

Na man your looking right at the 1stbaseman... yes its not the best angle, I will agree, but it works.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Na man your looking right at the 1stbaseman... yes its not the best angle, I will agree, but it works.

Usually, it's not an issue. They've got their leg extended, so their body is usually not blocking my vision of the two bases.

Plus, looking at it from an angle is much better than looking at it from behind. From behind, you get zero timing. You HAVE to listen for the ball hitting the glove, and if you have a noisy crowd or it's a soft catch, you're heading for trouble.

 

[mazzamouth]

Usually, it's not an issue. They've got their leg extended, so their body is usually not blocking my vision of the two bases.

Plus, looking at it from an angle is much better than looking at it from behind. From behind, you get zero timing. You HAVE to listen for the ball hitting the glove, and if you have a noisy crowd or it's a soft catch, you're heading for trouble.

you should only be listening to the ball hitting the glove, Look at the feet touching the bag and the sound of the ball hitting the glove.