Batting averages

[lcky3]

I think what everyone is missing is slugging percentage. BA is not the only thing that matters. My BA is about .625; however, my slugging % averages about 1.600 over three leagues, was closer to 2.000 before last week's games.

I would say a .600 average with a high slugging % is equally as valuable as a slap hitter's average of .700 with a low slugging percentage.

OBP don't matter **** to me, cuz I rarely walk. I mean, come on, it's slowpitch softball. Unless the pitcher is a complete incompetent, I'm not playing to walk. Hit the damn ball (and yes, I pitch, too).

 

[nate d.'8to5]

only stat that really matters is how many runs you allowed as a team and how many runs you scored as a team. Fundamentals wins games, HR's boost self esteem... although i hit 3 DBO's in 4 games last tourney... but i dont care because a 1 progressive HR rule is lame, and we were not gona get even remotely close to winning tourney.

 

[outside22]

keeping stats is the way to go as it holds everyone accountable. we have a bunch of guys who think they're hr hitters and if we didn't keep stats they wouldn't realize they're hitting around .500.

The one stat i would like to change is sacrifices. i think those should count as an out and go against your average.

 

[lcky3]

Here's a scenario for you...

3 for 4: 3 singles, 2 runs.

2 for 3: 2 HRs, 2 runs, 2 RBIs.

Who's more productive? A simple head to head would say the latter is more productive. You aren't guaranteed to score if you have a single, nor are you guaranteed to get an RBI from your hit, which is why I didn't give the 1st hitter 3 runs.

 

[SMAC]

I think what everyone is missing is slugging percentage. BA is not the only thing that matters. My BA is about .625; however, my slugging % averages about 1.600 over three leagues, was closer to 2.000 before last week's games.

I would say a .600 average with a high slugging % is equally as valuable as a slap hitter's average of .700 with a low slugging percentage.

OBP don't matter **** to me, cuz I rarely walk. I mean, come on, it's slowpitch softball. Unless the pitcher is a complete incompetent, I'm not playing to walk. Hit the damn ball (and yes, I pitch, too).

If your slugging % is as advertised with ~.625 average you are hurting your team by hitting HR's when you shouldn't. Stop hitting solo's and 2 run shots in order to pad your slugging %.

 

[EdFred]

Here's a scenario for you...

3 for 4: 3 singles, 2 runs.

2 for 3: 2 HRs, 2 runs, 2 RBIs.

Who's more productive? A simple head to head would say the latter is more productive. You aren't guaranteed to score if you have a single, nor are you guaranteed to get an RBI from your hit, which is why I didn't give the 1st hitter 3 runs.

Awesome. He hit two solo HRs, he's costing your team runs.

 

[mustafa]

My average is about .650-.700. I'm not good.

 

[lcky3]

If your slugging % is as advertised with ~.625 average you are hurting your team by hitting HR's when you shouldn't. Stop hitting solo's and 2 run shots in order to pad your slugging %.

Where do you get that I'm hitting solo shots and 2 run HRs? Of my 10 out of the park HRs this year, so far only 5 of them have been solo or 2 run shots, and that's only cuz the rest of my team does not necessarily hit well. I also have 12 doubles and 2 triples.

Don't be a hater cuz u got no power.

Considering I'm the only one on any of my team with multiple HRs and the ability to hit them fairly at will, I think I will hit them when I can.

 

[scrub]

A league I played in the past couple years actually uses a comprehensive points formula which looks like this: PTS=(AVG*5) + (1B*1) + (2B*2) + (3B*3) + (HR*4) + (BB*1) + (RS*.5) + (RBI*.5) + (SF*0) + (HRO*-4) + (SO*-2) + (OUTS*-1)

it's obviously weighted towards your average first (should be OBP), then basically slugging, so it's some form of obps but also factors in RS, RBI and discredits HRO's, K's and outs. (not perfect but not bad). Of course, how any system should be weighted needs to consider all the factors of play, which varies quite a bit from league to field to tournies to rules to bats to balls to competition....

Personally, I'm fine with reading stats individually and figuring out what I need to know.

 

[lcky3]

Awesome. He hit two solo HRs, he's costing your team runs.

Try to stay within context. This is simply head to head ABs, not in a game situation.

The singles guy could be costing you runs by hitting a single that doesn't score a run when the next guy in the lineup couldn't get a hit to save his life and hits into a DP. Ever consider that?

 

[lcky3]

A league I played in the past couple years actually uses a comprehensive points formula which looks like this: PTS=(AVG*5) + (1B*1) + (2B*2) + (3B*3) + (HR*4) + (BB*1) + (RS*.5) + (RBI*.5) + (SF*0) + (HRO*-4) + (SO*-2) + (OUTS*-1)

it's obviously weighted towards your average first (should be OBP), then basically slugging, so it's some form of obps but also factors in RS, RBI and discredits HRO's, K's and outs. (not perfect but not bad). Of course, how any system should be weighted needs to consider all the factors of play, which varies quite a bit from league to field to tournies to rules to bats to balls to competition....

Personally, I'm fine with reading stats individually and figuring out what I need to know.

This formula looks similar to OPS (OBP + slugging). Can also use OPS+ as a more accurate measure if you're a sabermetric nut.

 

[Nateorious]

I tend to agree with this, except my latest 1/4 was just last night. On a positive my three outs were all pretty good shots to the 3B. Guy made a couple good plays on me so I tip my hat to him. I put good swings on the ball, just hit some at'em balls. Oh well. More importantly we won anyway. That's what counts ultimately.

Next week I'll hit a dinker or two that will fall in. It all evens out.

That's part of the reason why .750 is so fin tough over the long haul. Sometimes balls hit well just get caught or people make a damn good play. If you have an oba of .650 + you're a huge asset to your team.

I would say something like this if I was have to say in general for oba
.500 and below - bad to very bad
.501 - .550- below average
.551 - .625 - average
.626 - .675 - above average
.676 - .725 - very good
.726 - .750 - elite
.750 + - your a ****ing superstar

I would like to see 100 sbf members log their averages over 50 games. I would bet this would be damn close. If anything it be to high though.


How I/my team does oba
- no errors counting against / 1-1
- fc are 0-1
- sacs are a 0-1

 

[lcky3]

Here's something else for you to consider. A power hitter will get more out of mi****s because teams are playing deep to account for the power.

I have several mi****s that have fallen for singles or even doubles because of this. Those same popups are usually outs for a hitter who can't hit for power.

 

[scrub]

This formula looks similar to OPS (OBP + slugging). Can also use OPS+ as a more accurate measure if you're a sabermetric nut.

I could give a **** about all this crazy stuff, but they have a hot and cold index on the website and they figure this is the best way to measure it.

 

[x25]

This formula looks similar to OPS (OBP + slugging). Can also use OPS+ as a more accurate measure if you're a sabermetric nut.

Since OPS+ is scaled to league average ... no, you probably couldn't.

 

[x25]

A league I played in the past couple years actually uses a comprehensive points formula which looks like this: PTS=(AVG*5) + (1B*1) + (2B*2) + (3B*3) + (HR*4) + (BB*1) + (RS*.5) + (RBI*.5) + (SF*0) + (HRO*-4) + (SO*-2) + (OUTS*-1)

it's obviously weighted towards your average first (should be OBP), then basically slugging, so it's some form of obps but also factors in RS, RBI and discredits HRO's, K's and outs. (not perfect but not bad). Of course, how any system should be weighted needs to consider all the factors of play, which varies quite a bit from league to field to tournies to rules to bats to balls to competition....

Personally, I'm fine with reading stats individually and figuring out what I need to know.

RS and RBI are brutally ****ty measurements of the batter's quality, because they're mostly (except on HR) based on what other hitters did around you.

The best players will convert more RBI chances, but first the players in front of them have to give them the chances.

 

[lcky3]

Since OPS+ is scaled to league average ... no, you probably couldn't.

Depends on how anal your league is about stats.

 

[scrub]

RS and RBI are brutally ****ty measurements of the batter's quality, because they're mostly (except on HR) based on what other hitters did around you.

true, and that's (im guessing) why they're weighted so weakly in the formula....for example a single or a walk is weighted twice as important as either run or rbi

 

[x25]

Here's something else for you to consider. A power hitter will get more out of mi****s because teams are playing deep to account for the power.

I have several mi****s that have fallen for singles or even doubles because of this. Those same popups are usually outs for a hitter who can't hit for power.

If this is true, it'll be reflected in BA/OBP anyway (since it'll be a hit), so it's not even worth accounting for.

Power is important because the run-scoring environment in SP is so high - it's up to you to decide how much the extra outs the 'power hitter' makes are worth in your scenario.

 

[lcky3]

RS and RBI are brutally ****ty measurements of the batter's quality, because they're mostly (except on HR) based on what other hitters did around you.

The best players will convert more RBI chances, but first the players in front of them have to give them the chances.

Exactly! Which is why a HR hitter with a slightly lower average is still way better than a singles hitter who bats 100 points higher. You are only talking about adding 1 more hit per 10 ABs at that rate.

Your power hitter will account for more RBIs, and opportunities to generate RBIs.

 

[EdFred]

Try to stay within context. This is simply head to head ABs, not in a game situation.

The singles guy could be costing you runs by hitting a single that doesn't score a run when the next guy in the lineup couldn't get a hit to save his life and hits into a DP. Ever consider that?

Except hits only matter in a game. Hits don't matter in BP. Plus in most tourneys, that 2nd HR is an out - so he was really 1-3 and used your team's only HR on a solo. Doubly awesome. The singles guy isn't costing you runs, the guys behind him are. The DBO hero is costing you runs and outs.

 

[SMAC]

Where do you get that I'm hitting solo shots and 2 run HRs? Of my 10 out of the park HRs this year, so far only 5 of them have been solo or 2 run shots, and that's only cuz the rest of my team does not necessarily hit well. I also have 12 doubles and 2 triples.

Don't be a hater cuz u got no power.

Considering I'm the only one on any of my team with multiple HRs and the ability to hit them fairly at will, I think I will hit them when I can.

You made these numbers up. You'd have only 5 or 6 singles in about 50 AB's. You try and go yard almost every AB and only hit a HR one in 4 times at best. That is not good, nor anywhere near "at will".

 

[SMAC]

Except hits only matter in a game. Hits don't matter in BP. Plus in most tourneys, that 2nd HR is an out - so he was really 1-3 and used your team's only HR on a solo. Doubly awesome. The singles guy isn't costing you runs, the guys behind him are. The DBO hero is costing you runs and outs.

He's a can-o-corn lower D league hitter trying to justify his mounting F-7's and solo HR's to his teammates.

 

[scrub]

All my teammates know the solo HR rule. You hit one, it's a mulligan. Hit a second one and we hold you to the bench while we stuff some tube socks with softballs and beat your doughy middle section purple.

No one has hit a third one yet, thank god for them.

 

[lcky3]

Except hits only matter in a game. Hits don't matter in BP. Plus in most tourneys, that 2nd HR is an out - so he was really 1-3 and used your team's only HR on a solo. Doubly awesome. The singles guy isn't costing you runs, the guys behind him are. The DBO hero is costing you runs and outs.

Then you're playing in some ****y tourneys that only allow 1 HR per game.

And you're still not keeping it in context of simple head to head. Just because I CAN hit a HR doesn't mean I HAVE to. I can keep it in the park when I need to, and those hits are usually extra bases, which are still better than the walks and singles your slap hitter generates.

Say I hit .600 and only hit doubles, and your slap hitter hits .700 with 2 walks. In 10 ABs, I have 12 bases to your slap hitters's 9, AND a much higher probability that the hitters ahead of me will score.

Still better as a power hitter cuz neither one has a guarantee that the hitters around them are making a contribution.

Next argument, please.

 

[lcky3]

You made these numbers up. You'd have only 5 or 6 singles in about 50 AB's. You try and go yard almost every AB and only hit a HR one in 4 times at best. That is not good, nor anywhere near "at will".

Ever heard of a factor called "wind"? Or "HR limits"? Don't be an idiot.

I don't necessarily try to hit a HR cuz I agree that solo HRs are not the most productive HOME RUN. But they're still better than a single.

I will hit a solo HR if my team is batting ****ty for two reasons. One, it pumps them up to hit better, and two, I have no guarantee that they will magically start hitting better.

Soooo productive hitting a single or double when no one on either side of you is hitting.

 

[EdFred]

Then you're playing in some ****y tourneys that only allow 1 HR per game.

And you're still not keeping it in context of simple head to head. Just because I CAN hit a HR doesn't mean I HAVE to. I can keep it in the park when I need to, and those hits are usually extra bases, which are still better than the walks and singles your slap hitter generates.

Say I hit .600 and only hit doubles, and your slap hitter hits .700 with 2 walks. In 10 ABs, I have 12 bases to your slap hitters's 9, AND a much higher probability that the hitters ahead of me will score.

Still better as a power hitter cuz neither one has a guarantee that the hitters around them are making a contribution.

Next argument, please.

Are you playing C or B level tourney ball? All the sanctioned tourneys are 1 HR at D - which is where the majority of ball is played. The logical extrapolation is to say your team is entirely .600 power hitters, and mine is entirely .700 slap hitters. Doing the math, my team will beat you nearly every time.

 

[EdFred]

Ever heard of a factor called "wind"? Or "HR limits"? Don't be an idiot.

I don't necessarily try to hit a HR cuz I agree that solo HRs are not the most productive HOME RUN. But they're still better than a single.

I will hit a solo HR if my team is batting ****ty for two reasons. One, it pumps them up to hit better, and two, I have no guarantee that they will magically start hitting better.

Soooo productive hitting a single or double when no one on either side of you is hitting.

No they aren't. They cost you in the long run. The last solo HR our tourney team had cost us the game.

 

[lcky3]

Here's my line for 3 leagues, total of 12 games: 35 hits, 11 HRs (in 2 HR limit, only 1 league with 1-up), 2 triples, 9 doubles, 13 singles. Also have 3 sac flies that scored a run. BA is .660 in 53 ABs cuz I don't count those SFs as ABs, which is the proper way per baseball/softball statistics.

A slap hitter with a BA 100 points higher would have approx. 6 more hits than me (rounding up cuz I feel sorry for the little fella).

Same singles hitter would have 41 total bases, I have 81 bases. Still way better.

 

[Moose40]

Then you're playing in some ****y tourneys that only allow 1 HR per game.

And you're still not keeping it in context of simple head to head. Just because I CAN hit a HR doesn't mean I HAVE to. I can keep it in the park when I need to, and those hits are usually extra bases, which are still better than the walks and singles your slap hitter generates.

Say I hit .600 and only hit doubles, and your slap hitter hits .700 with 2 walks. In 10 ABs, I have 12 bases to your slap hitters's 9, AND a much higher probability that the hitters ahead of me will score.

Still better as a power hitter cuz neither one has a guarantee that the hitters around them are making a contribution.

Next argument, please.

Except the slap hitter only has 7 bases. you base it on 10 ab's , that means with every thing even, with two walks the slap hitter only has 8abs, a .700 avg is 5.6 hits. so either 7 or 8 bases by rounding up 5.6 to 6 hits