coreyjemiller
Manager
THIS. YES. THIS. :bigok:
Is softball changing and falling because.....
- Thread starter AWall13
- Start date
THIS. YES. THIS. :bigok:
rhound50
Rec Coed Superstar
Its a combination of all these things.
1. The game has turned into a thug sport which turns off a lot of new potential players.
2. The associations are more worried about making money than improving the sport. If an association really wanted to do away with shaved bats they could, the problem is they are more worried about losing money to actually do it.
3. Sandbagging is rampant and there is no separation between classes because damn near everyone is playing E. This makes it almost impossible for new teams to play and have any fun. When a league team decides to try tourney ball they usually run into a couple of sponsored E teams who are stacked with guys who have played E for years trying to win a ring, the new team gets smashed a couple times has a couple of 0-3 and maybe a 1-2 and decides.
1. The game has turned into a thug sport which turns off a lot of new potential players.
2. The associations are more worried about making money than improving the sport. If an association really wanted to do away with shaved bats they could, the problem is they are more worried about losing money to actually do it.
3. Sandbagging is rampant and there is no separation between classes because damn near everyone is playing E. This makes it almost impossible for new teams to play and have any fun. When a league team decides to try tourney ball they usually run into a couple of sponsored E teams who are stacked with guys who have played E for years trying to win a ring, the new team gets smashed a couple times has a couple of 0-3 and maybe a 1-2 and decides.
Gamble
Addicted to Softballfans
So much in-group elitism here. Delivers the lulz.
Anyone ever considered the possibility that softball just isn't that cool to a lot of people? It's an expensive sport that requires a major time commitment. You only get so many weekends a year. Popularity of sports comes and goes; look at bowling. Maybe the golden age of softball is just behind us.
Anyone ever considered the possibility that softball just isn't that cool to a lot of people? It's an expensive sport that requires a major time commitment. You only get so many weekends a year. Popularity of sports comes and goes; look at bowling. Maybe the golden age of softball is just behind us.
pats2812
Addicted to Softballfans
Trying to keep softball alive in my town is like pulling teeth. Mainly because of the price, we market it out and finally gauge some interest from either mid 20 year old kids or company teams. But once they see that there is a league fee, an ump fee, expensive bats just to keep up, protective equipment for some players (which can be very pricey) because of the crazy technology. Most get detoured and walk away.
Then we finally get some new teams in and they go up against 1 or 2 really good teams and just immediately think they will never win and don't come back the next year.
Then there is the D-bags who want to fight every night or "go middle with intent" which makes teams walk away because lets face it we all have to get up and go to work to make a living. Noone can afford to get hurt and miss work.
Its sad, I love this sport and hope things turn around.
Then we finally get some new teams in and they go up against 1 or 2 really good teams and just immediately think they will never win and don't come back the next year.
Then there is the D-bags who want to fight every night or "go middle with intent" which makes teams walk away because lets face it we all have to get up and go to work to make a living. Noone can afford to get hurt and miss work.
Its sad, I love this sport and hope things turn around.
Damo
<font color=#cc3333"> MADE IN CANADA!</font>
Wartown
Extra Hitter
Dang.............literally??
KCRelentless
Coach
Lol. No, but big guys are sometimes treated that way around here.
Spackler
...got that goin for me
Ya and the breed it produced of flat brimmers wearing Tapout shirts introduced a new level of douche when it overlapped with the softball world
Captain10
E skills playing D Ball
I think the separation in talent has a lot to do with it, especially in league ball. Theres one team thats going to dominate in every league and even though another team might only play them once a month for 3 months, its enough to make them play the lower league and beat all the teams that play for the beer and time away from their wives. Those teams decide that its better to be miserable at home then miserable in the heat at softball.
These young kids coming into the game learn quick enough that they arent hot **** like they think. Infielders getting eaten up by hot shots is very humbling to a wanna be super star.
These young kids coming into the game learn quick enough that they arent hot **** like they think. Infielders getting eaten up by hot shots is very humbling to a wanna be super star.
stork
Rocky Mountain Oyster aka DirtDog
I don't care how young or old you are, learn the fundamentals of the game and put them into practice. Respect the game and respect your peers and if they don't reciprocate, try to be the better man…at least until it is beyond that point. Be a student of the game. Continually play to get better…go ahead and play a fun night if you want but if you aren't playing against the best competition you can then you are only cheating yourself. Don't be a cheater, it slowly kills your soul. Have a little fun.
Or **** off.
Or **** off.
SandyWH
#Delicious
Sandbagging has a lot to do with it.
I've been on both sides of the coin. Played in what was supposed to be a neighborhood beer league for residents of our little community. When it started out 10 years ago it was just that. 6 teams of guys spanning from overweight shlubs to former collegiate ballers. But, the point was to play a little and drink a lot and have a good time.
Over time the drive to win and demolish the other teams has turned that league into a 12 tournament teams playing league ball against each other.
I quit one team when the coach brought in some ringers (paying their way) just so he could beat teams by 40 runs and win a plastic trophy. The next year I played for the worst team in the league, just because they had a ton of fun. After going 0-14 only 2 guys outside of myself ever played again.
When I go to the city to play league ball they have 3 divisions, Upper, Middle, and Lower. The problem is no one wants to play in Upper. The Upper divisions only ever has 4 teams in it and half the time they don't even put an Upper on the schedule because they can't get teams to move up. The rule has always been that the top 2 teams in each division move up the next season. But rather than moving up the teams that do well in Middle and Lower change coaches and team names just so that they don't have to move up. Yet those of us that play in the Upper have to wait until 4 days before the season is suppose to start to find out if we even are going to play or if we are going to have to split up and Middle / Lower teams to play with, or go to the next town over and play there
Lower should be for the teams that aren't good at all and are treating like a little rec time and trying to get a little better. Not so a bunch of guys can use the division as BP.
I've seen the same in tournament ball.
Lots of teams sandbagging. But part of that is the prize packages too. I started playing tourney ball about 12 years ago and my team at that time used to pick tourneys based on the prizes. Gloves, Bags, Jerseys, Bats, Cleats, etc went to the winners of the upper divisions. We literally would eneter tournaments based off of needs as players. Now we sign up for tourneys where the prize package for the Upper division are 13 T-shirts for all the divisions and the next tourney entry fee paid. What then is the point or the incentive to even try to play up? To be able to hit a homerun or two extra?
I've been on both sides of the coin. Played in what was supposed to be a neighborhood beer league for residents of our little community. When it started out 10 years ago it was just that. 6 teams of guys spanning from overweight shlubs to former collegiate ballers. But, the point was to play a little and drink a lot and have a good time.
Over time the drive to win and demolish the other teams has turned that league into a 12 tournament teams playing league ball against each other.
I quit one team when the coach brought in some ringers (paying their way) just so he could beat teams by 40 runs and win a plastic trophy. The next year I played for the worst team in the league, just because they had a ton of fun. After going 0-14 only 2 guys outside of myself ever played again.
When I go to the city to play league ball they have 3 divisions, Upper, Middle, and Lower. The problem is no one wants to play in Upper. The Upper divisions only ever has 4 teams in it and half the time they don't even put an Upper on the schedule because they can't get teams to move up. The rule has always been that the top 2 teams in each division move up the next season. But rather than moving up the teams that do well in Middle and Lower change coaches and team names just so that they don't have to move up. Yet those of us that play in the Upper have to wait until 4 days before the season is suppose to start to find out if we even are going to play or if we are going to have to split up and Middle / Lower teams to play with, or go to the next town over and play there
Lower should be for the teams that aren't good at all and are treating like a little rec time and trying to get a little better. Not so a bunch of guys can use the division as BP.
I've seen the same in tournament ball.
Lots of teams sandbagging. But part of that is the prize packages too. I started playing tourney ball about 12 years ago and my team at that time used to pick tourneys based on the prizes. Gloves, Bags, Jerseys, Bats, Cleats, etc went to the winners of the upper divisions. We literally would eneter tournaments based off of needs as players. Now we sign up for tourneys where the prize package for the Upper division are 13 T-shirts for all the divisions and the next tourney entry fee paid. What then is the point or the incentive to even try to play up? To be able to hit a homerun or two extra?
KCRelentless
Coach
WTP all day!
Mr. Monocle
Member
There's definately a combination of things that can turn people off of softball. It's expensive. Our league fees have gone up every year for really no reason. Combine that with equipment cost and it gets pricey. And trying to find a group of 10 people without anyone being a freeloader is suprisingly hard.
Our first league we played we were hitting the ball with hammers and 16" bats, and watching other teams mash the ball. We knew nothing about equipment or composites or Mikens or whatever. It wasn't until a little later we realized these teams were putting $1k+ into their bats. When you start with an outside unbiased opinion like that, you kinda see that something is askew. You have guys swinging the bat like their taking leisurely BP swings and the ball is going 300ft. You know it shouldn't happen but it does. The biggest eye opener for me was when a guy check swung a pitch over my LCF's head. For people looking to pick up softball as a hobby this is extremely discouraging. It's one of the few sports that spending more money can make someone better. It's truly a unique sport in that sense.
Combine that with people who feel accomplishment (and feel the need to express their sense of accomplishment) because they can spend $300 to hit HRs and it is really unappealing to newcomers. Then, add the twist of people who feel every game is game 7 of the world series, with a hint of people who feel the need to be confrontational to the other team and complain about EVERYTHING possible, and it's truly not a sport for everyone.
Bottom line:
Price + Douches + Chronic B*tchers = Big Turnoff.
For people like my team, we got into it. We had fun picking up new bats and trying new things out and it becomes part of the strategy. It gets old after a while but we have a great situation at our park. We have no fences and play with dead balls. You can send the ball a mile and it wont matter. We'll just play that far back. As for the douches, the older you get the easier it is to tune them out, and beat em with good old fashioned small ball.
NOTE TO CLARIFY: There's nothing wrong with taking the sport seriously and competetively; But competetive teams please understand, if you're playing in low division leagues YOU'RE the ones who are out of place
Our first league we played we were hitting the ball with hammers and 16" bats, and watching other teams mash the ball. We knew nothing about equipment or composites or Mikens or whatever. It wasn't until a little later we realized these teams were putting $1k+ into their bats. When you start with an outside unbiased opinion like that, you kinda see that something is askew. You have guys swinging the bat like their taking leisurely BP swings and the ball is going 300ft. You know it shouldn't happen but it does. The biggest eye opener for me was when a guy check swung a pitch over my LCF's head. For people looking to pick up softball as a hobby this is extremely discouraging. It's one of the few sports that spending more money can make someone better. It's truly a unique sport in that sense.
Combine that with people who feel accomplishment (and feel the need to express their sense of accomplishment) because they can spend $300 to hit HRs and it is really unappealing to newcomers. Then, add the twist of people who feel every game is game 7 of the world series, with a hint of people who feel the need to be confrontational to the other team and complain about EVERYTHING possible, and it's truly not a sport for everyone.
Bottom line:
Price + Douches + Chronic B*tchers = Big Turnoff.
For people like my team, we got into it. We had fun picking up new bats and trying new things out and it becomes part of the strategy. It gets old after a while but we have a great situation at our park. We have no fences and play with dead balls. You can send the ball a mile and it wont matter. We'll just play that far back. As for the douches, the older you get the easier it is to tune them out, and beat em with good old fashioned small ball.
NOTE TO CLARIFY: There's nothing wrong with taking the sport seriously and competetively; But competetive teams please understand, if you're playing in low division leagues YOU'RE the ones who are out of place
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chrometip78
The Hungarian Barbarian
I'd just reverse the order, if they made people play up, a lot more new teams would be willing to play. It's a long shot but hopefully the influx of new teams would dilute the thug population.
stork
Rocky Mountain Oyster aka DirtDog
I blame soccer. Stupid ****ing soccer.
sjury
The Old Man
^^^True ... Most the Dbags want to brag about run ruling everyone in a Charity tourney then say they took fourth in State D.
No,but chicks dig it, I heard.
I agree with Joker. If you have to BP 3 times a week and play four nights, then the best you can do is put together an E team, your return on investment is failing.
It's declining, severely. There used to be over 30 parks (over 40 fields) in Milwaukee playing softball every night and Sunday Morning. There was a waiting list for the good leagues, and a 64 team year end tourney. Now they are half that, in less then 15 years. You would have 3000 people at the Championship games for the city. People would bring their families. That has stopped, because the general etiquette of people and players has dropped, the dbags.
Then why the big surge in kickball, dodgeball, zumba, etc. People want to do stuff. Video games and youth sports only accounts for a small amount of the decline. Kickball = $0 for equipment, it's always coed (around here), and it's still a have fun drinking game.
^^^ Yes, but thugs, bat shaving, and sandbagging can be summed up in douche baggery.
F you!! Softball is life bro!! .... True, it may not be cool, but it's fun. It may not require a major time commitment, you said elitism, well if I played one night a week with my work team, bought a $99 bat from ****'s, and didn't BP, as did the other 10 guys, how well will we do when Jocko Team Tourney comes to play in our little rec league to "get some swings in".
The same thing is happening. When we were younger there was the Little League teams and the All Stars. The little league teams were sponsored by a local biz and played during the week, and the AllStars would play other cities Allstars on the weekend, and it would be a mix of the better kids from all your league teams. Now Because of a higher sense of competition and parents thinking little Johnny is the next ARod, they spend big money on equipment and Select teams to keep all the good kids together, and are slowly squeezing out the kids that are in it for fun.
It's a shame what's happening to sports in general.
east bay j
The Polish Hammer
Just played a coed game last night, fairly competitive league (lots of men & woman tourney players). ****ing league director makes us keep score, we had to use the same softballs from the previous game, and the umps call last inning 45 minutes into the games so we get all of 4 innings in, 2 at bats (there are 65 minutes between games). To top it off LD only has 4 teams in the league, 9 games plus top 4 in playoffs and we are playing $750 to play. League winning team doesn't even get a t-shirt.
I think there are a lot of dumb-ass league directors out there who know nothing about softball and are making some very poor decisions
I think there are a lot of dumb-ass league directors out there who know nothing about softball and are making some very poor decisions
Cause they want to have fun.. kickball is fun and co-ed.. ppl in mens softball get all aggro for such a bull**** game. This game should be all about exercise, fun and socializing. But some people think getting drunk and being an ******* is counted as playing for fun
stork
Rocky Mountain Oyster aka DirtDog
Where the hell is that? SL?
GiggityBoy
Coach
I always felt that a large % of softball players don't win at anything else in life, so they sandbag and cheat, use cut bats, steriods, etc... in order to feel good about themselves.
I can say from elimination that it has to be SL or Oakland..
Hayward, Dublin, Livermore, Pleasanton and Fremont are not like that lol.. I would actually say these leagues are ran very well.
stork
Rocky Mountain Oyster aka DirtDog
east bay j
The Polish Hammer
It's in Albany (just north of Berkeley). What sucks - it's a fun drinking league for for mostly tourney folk who just want to relax with friends & family on a Friday night. Everyone gets along & has a good time but the league director is in charge of all sports at the park and has no clue about softball (what do u think she plays.... you guessed it ****ing soccer).
So I also play in Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, & Walnut Creek & these leagues are fairly organized. Would love to play in the Hayward (H.A.R.D.) league but I'd have to drive thru the traffic hell triangle to get there.
What i do like about Albany is that we have the option of using a pitching screen (which we all forced the LD to do). I know a lot of folks don't like these but it really does reduce a ton of the "middle" bull**** that goes on. Sadly though, the LD is even ruining that as she refuses to spend the $150 on a new net this season.
stork
Rocky Mountain Oyster aka DirtDog
I played SL, CV, Alameda, Hayward, Fremont and Pleasanton. Hayward used to have the best comp it seemed but had fun in all.
Some LD's just are not very into the game. Had a league up here that had 'no double walls'. Composites were gtg. Team with the cheap-o metal bat that said double-wall on it got pulled, but our cnt+ was gtg. Go figure. I felt bad for the guy who had his bat pulled. He was confused and dumbfounded. Actually, come to think about it, it is kinda funny.
Some LD's just are not very into the game. Had a league up here that had 'no double walls'. Composites were gtg. Team with the cheap-o metal bat that said double-wall on it got pulled, but our cnt+ was gtg. Go figure. I felt bad for the guy who had his bat pulled. He was confused and dumbfounded. Actually, come to think about it, it is kinda funny.
