Player Offensive Value Question

addicted2bats

addicted2bats

Active Member
Curious on what you value more in a player. I'll give 3 examples, which would you rather have on your team? Tourney or League doesn't really matter....just on your team in general. We'll just assume all 3 play the same position, and its a wash in terms of comparions.

A) 22/25 .880 avg / 34 RBI / 15 Runs scored / 0 HR

B) 18/25 .720 avg / 22 RBI / 13 Runs Scored / 5 HR

C) 14/22 .636 avg / 20 RBI / 11 Runs Scored / 8 HR
 
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sjury

sjury

The Old Man
That's a snap shot over 5 or so games. Nothing is guaranteed. I've seen guys have 7 or 800 seasons and barely break 500 next year, then back to hitting about 700 again. Guys streak and slump. If you have to choose one of those guys, I'd choose the guy that's fun to be around and buys a pitcher or two.
 
R

robokill

Manager
What does "its a wash in terms of comparions" mean?

Realistically the .880 guy is the most valuable unless your team is very power starved. It does depend a bit on what the non-HR hits are - if we assume they are all singles the 8 HR guy might actually be the best in an unlimited HR league.
 
TWmccoy

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I'd probably go for B. Blend of good average and some power. Nothing at all wrong with A either though. Coming through with clutch hits and piling up RBIs.

C would be the guy you pick up for tournies where lots of HRs are allowed. He'd be a liability in limited HR games though. 20 RBI on 8 HRs says he swings for the fence with none or 1 guy on a lot. HR management skills would be lacking.
 
Sully

Sully

Wanna buy jerseys/rings?
Initially I said B because he is the blend of power and average. Some of that would depend on whether those home runs were when they were needed and how many he hits that are DBO's or possibly inning enders. If he hit 5 solo homeruns, that's not nearly as useful as hitting 5 three run homeruns. Which brings me to my final decision, A seems to be the more valuable if he maintains that average over the whole season. With A, it doesn't matter whether you have homeruns left, or what the situation is, all he does is get on base and not make outs. Not much more you can ask of a guy. B has more home runs, but also gets on base 16% less than A.
 
T

TonyB

Addicted to Softballfans
A if you can put him in front of some good hitters that will bring him in. B if he doesn't have any support.
 
V

vahntitrio

Coach
Give me the guy that picks a hole and can hit it. Put a half dozen of those guys in a row and you'll score runs and wear the other team down. Dingers are nice but they are kind of a rally killer.
 
GrinningBear

GrinningBear

World's deadliest house husband
In the real world I have to agree with whoever is reliable. The best hitters or fielders are useless if they don't show up.

In the hypothetical I would take A. I would take a whole team full of A.

There still is and always will be a mystique to the guy who can end a game with one swing. That is the one strategic time I would want C. In an end of a close game situation, give me the power guy. The solid, automatic hitter can be counted on to get a winning run in, if that's the situation. But if you need another run or two, he's going to be on first or second and you'll need other guys to come through. I'll play the odds the big guy takes one out over a string of hitters who all need to be clutch with no room for error. I was fortunate enough my power guys were always clutch hitters though.
 
T

TonyB

Addicted to Softballfans
Stretch19 said:
some of yall are legit dumb as ****. who cares if player A is hitting HR's or not?

if you can get a guy who has 34 RBI's w/o hitting a HR, why does the guy who hit 5 HR's yet managed 12 less RBI get consideration?

that really makes zero sense at all.
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RBI is as much a product of the team as it is the player: an average player on a good team can pile up the RBI while a great player on a bad team might not have many chances to to drive anybody in. A is averaging about 1.5 RBI per AB. That means he's getting lots of AB with guys on base. He has 12 more RBI than B, with only 4 more hits and the same number of AB. So is A hitting gaps and scoring guys from 1st, or is he hitting singles and scoring guys from 3rd? Is B getting more AB without RBI opportunities? No way to tell just from the stats.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
If personality is a wash guy a is the only option. He doesn't make outs, period.

If c is playing unlimited hrs then he's just not that good. If he's playing limited then he's either making outs early trying to save the homers for later or hitting them early and then getting out the rest of the way. Tough to start a rally with that guy in the lineup.
 
TWmccoy

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
IMO, each of the 3 guys listed could be useful on a team. There are games when you'll absolutely need that power guy. Thing is though, he should have a little higher avg. than listed here. There's nothing anywhere that says a great power guy can't also hit for avg.

Player A is a great option of getting on base frequently, but if you don't have a good power hitter in there he's going to get stranded a lot. I do somewhat agree that HRs are rally killers, but they can also be the difference between winning and losing. I've seen HRs demoralize teams before.

In a perfect world you'd have player A, but he'd have some HRs mixed in as well as a high batting avg.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I didn't mean hrs or even solos kill rallies. I just mean the dude has 6 hits that aren't hrs. Unless this a league with higher hrs allowed, this dude is hitting way below the norm for a power hitter at the level that allows that many hrs in many games.
 
T

TonyB

Addicted to Softballfans
TWmccoy said:
IMO, each of the 3 guys listed could be useful on a team. There are games when you'll absolutely need that power guy. Thing is though, he should have a little higher avg. than listed here. There's nothing anywhere that says a great power guy can't also hit for avg.

Player A is a great option of getting on base frequently, but if you don't have a good power hitter in there he's going to get stranded a lot. I do somewhat agree that HRs are rally killers, but they can also be the difference between winning and losing. I've seen HRs demoralize teams before.

In a perfect world you'd have player A, but he'd have some HRs mixed in as well as a high batting avg.
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You don't need power guys behind A, you just need a couple guys that hit consistently.
 
GrinningBear

GrinningBear

World's deadliest house husband
TonyB said:
You don't need power guys behind A, you just need a couple guys that hit consistently.
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Over time that would lead to better results, yeah. But I still like the odds of a power guy at the end of a tight game. Say a team is down by two, and everybody hits gaps and trades places at home and second. Three hits to win, and that's assuming everyone gets a double. If they go station to station you need more. If the power guy's behind the automatic hit, two swings end it. Assuming there's a homerun left and the other team pitches to him, of course.
 
Paulypal

Paulypal

Addicted to Softballfans
addicted2bats said:
Curious on what you value more in a player. I'll give 3 examples, which would you rather have on your team? Tourney or League doesn't really matter....just on your team in general. We'll just assume all 3 play the same position, and its a wash in terms of comparions.

A) 22/25 .880 avg / 34 RBI / 15 Runs scored / 0 HR

B) 18/25 .720 avg / 22 RBI / 13 Runs Scored / 5 HR

C) 14/22 .636 avg / 20 RBI / 11 Runs Scored / 8 HR
Click to expand...

This is a very misleading comparison. Over a bigger sample size I have to believe the guy that homers once in less than every 3 at bats is going to have more RBI's than someone that doesn't hit any homers. It is not likely that a hitter is going to average 1.5 RBI's with every hit - especially with zero homers.

This is way to small of a sample size to make any kind of comparison.
 
sjury

sjury

The Old Man
Paulypal said:
This is a very misleading comparison. Over a bigger sample size I have to believe the guy that homers once in less than every 3 at bats is going to have more RBI's than someone that doesn't hit any homers. It is not likely that a hitter is going to average 1.5 RBI's with every hit - especially with zero homers.

This is way to small of a sample size to make any kind of comparison.
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That and no one bats 880 for a whole season. That is only a snap shot of about 5 games.
 
D

DHM

Extra Hitter
Agree with the others, whoever is the coolest/best teammate. I mean, none of us are pros, right?
That said, the best stat that I think can capture overall "value" is OBP + ISO because softball stats are in such a different context than baseball. OBP just tells you he doesn't make outs, then ISO tells you he's got some pop and doesn't hit .600 with lucky ground balls. If you add those together you get a number that's more on a traditional baseball OPS scale, anything over .900 is gravy.
But it's all situational. Even those stats are subject to argument and don't really mean **** if the dude is always arguing with blue and doesn't show up half the time!
 
RightSideHitter

RightSideHitter

Addicted to Softballfans
There is only one way to win a softball game. It's not by getting the most hits or hitting the most home runs. You only win by scoring more runs than the other team. How you do it is not important at all. Base hits or home runs doesn't matter. What matters is scoring runs. Player A accounts for 49 runs in this scenario. Without knowing any other details, that's the guy you take.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
DHM said:
if the dude is always arguing with blue and doesn't show up half the time!
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I hate these two factors! Add in doesn't hustle it ground balls and throws his equipment and those are probably my top signs of a cancer. The only thing worse than the guy that Arthur's with blue if the guy that blames everything on him and lets it effect his whole game.
 
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