USSSA's Answer to New Bat Standards Announcement

[hookumsnivy]

average player has two bats? what team do you play on haha

Take into account that some guys have dozens.
If I look at the 12 regulars on my team we have roughly 24 bats. Some guys have none, most have at least 1 and some have 3-5.

All the tourney players on my league team have at least 3 bats.
Look at the guys in this thread that have bats in their signature. There's a lot of utrip bats listed.

 

[Dick360]

Unless you take advantage of someone on ebay, it will be harder to sell usssa bats because most people on this site (where most people buy/sell/trade said bats) are already aware of the rule changes.
I've been playing regularly since 2004 and I've only broken 2 composite bats (I went through a few metals of course). I recently picked up an SCX23 ri before the rule change, and with how durable those things are, it would last me at least 4 years. The problem is that those bats are completely useless starting in 2013 - they either become BP only, or they go to the landfill. When ASA made the rule change, they didn't outlaw ALL bats, only a select few.

You mentioned the manufacturers had to sign off on this, but they would be INSANE not to. Everyone who plays USSSA, which according to tnacty in another thread is over 70,000 teams, has to BUY new bats. Lets say there are 12 guys per team and the average player has 2 bats - that's a minimum of
1.68 million new bat sales in the first year. I'm guessing that's not counting the countless unsanctioned leagues that follow the USSSA rules.

I'm completely on board with this, the bat manufacturers will definitely profit, and I'm sure to some extent that USSSA profits increase with the profits of the manufacturers. The only way to deter USSSA from going through with this change is to make them aware that the revenue they lose from all of the angry players who decide to play for other organizations will offset any potential profit they get from the manufacturer's increased sales. I will admit that I am also one of the "extreme examples", but there are more than just a select few who will be losing money in this. Just go look at the "Bat Collections 2" thread on the OSPB and remember that the large majority of those bats cost between $200-$300.

 

[hookumsnivy]

I'm completely on board with this, the bat manufacturers will definitely profit, and I'm sure to some extent that USSSA profits increase with the profits of the manufacturers. The only way to deter USSSA from going through with this change is to make them aware that the revenue they lose from all of the angry players who decide to play for other organizations will offset any potential profit they get from the manufacturer's increased sales. I will admit that I am also one of the "extreme examples", but there are more than just a select few who will be losing money in this. Just go look at the "Bat Collections 2" thread on the OSPB and remember that the large majority of those bats cost between $200-$300.

I'm all for it as well, just explaining why people have an issue with it. I was playing 1st base the other day with a lefty at the plate w/ a shaved bat (no actual proof of it, but you could tell and guys that played with him in the past thought so as well). I don't like being put in that position, and later when I was catching I gave him so much **** about the bat that he stopped using it. The ump noticed and asked him why he switched bats and he said I'm trying to hit a single, not a HR.
Do I want that crap out of the game? Abso-****ing-lutely.

 

[Dick360]

I'm all for it as well, just explaining why people have an issue with it. I was playing 1st base the other day with a lefty at the plate w/ a shaved bat (no actual proof of it, but you could tell and guys that played with him in the past thought so as well). I don't like being put in that position, and later when I was catching I gave him so much **** about the bat that he stopped using it. The ump noticed and asked him why he switched bats and he said I'm trying to hit a single, not a HR.
Do I want that crap out of the game? Abso-****ing-lutely.

The sad thing is that big lefty with the shaved bat is one of the people not getting screwed by this new change. He's probably breaking 2 or 3 bats every year because they're shaved. That means he'll be buying new bats come 2013 no matter what. Guys that don't swing shaved bats might get 2 or 3 seasons out of a bat before it breaks so if they have 4 or 5 bats because they like a variety, they should be set for a while. Now they just have to swallow a loss, it's ridiculous. I dislike shaved bats as much as the next guy, but don't screw over the people who are playing fair as a means to fix the problem. When they meet at this U-Trip convention in 2 weeeks, they should pass a new rule that puts a lifetime ban on anyone caught swinging a shaved bat, and make the umpires start being more proactive about questioning the integrity of the bats being used. I know it still won't get all of the cheaters, but we've all seen "that guy" who weighs 160 lbs and hits a ball that was a foot outside and a foot off the ground with a check swing and the ball goes 350'. That type of thing should make an umpire question a bat, but they never get called out, at least not that I've ever seen.

 

[eHall]

Unless you take advantage of someone on ebay, it will be harder to sell usssa bats because most people on this site (where most people buy/sell/trade said bats) are already aware of the rule changes.
I've been playing regularly since 2004 and I've only broken 2 composite bats (I went through a few metals of course). I recently picked up an SCX23 ri before the rule change, and with how durable those things are, it would last me at least 4 years. The problem is that those bats are completely useless starting in 2013 - they either become BP only, or they go to the landfill. When ASA made the rule change, they didn't outlaw ALL bats, only a select few.

You mentioned the manufacturers had to sign off on this, but they would be INSANE not to. Everyone who plays USSSA, which according to tnacty in another thread is over 70,000 teams, has to BUY new bats. Lets say there are 12 guys per team and the average player has 2 bats - that's a minimum of
1.68 million new bat sales in the first year. I'm guessing that's not counting the countless unsanctioned leagues that follow the USSSA rules.

NSA will be changing bat rules about the same time. Rumor has it they will require that the barrel and endcap be one piece. Meaning no removable endcaps. There is also a strong rumor that ASA will be changing bat restrictions to allow 1.2 bpf bats once they fully implement the .52/275 ball.

Also not every single player will replace all the bats in his bag with brand new 2012 bats. It will be a gradual process.

I bet secondary market prices on utrip bats next year are relatively uneffected by this news. Guys will still want to swing the hottest bats available. As the manufacturers get the new bats on the market and send out warranty returns that are 2013 compliant, the supply of older bats will fall but the demand will still exist.

Bats might not bring a premium, but they will sell for a reasonable price. no one is going to lose their shirt on this one.

 

[Joker]

Take into account that some guys have dozens.
If I look at the 12 regulars on my team we have roughly 24 bats. Some guys have none, most have at least 1 and some have 3-5.

All the tourney players on my league team have at least 3 bats.
Look at the guys in this thread that have bats in their signature. There's a lot of utrip bats listed.

too damn bad if they have a dozen bats. if they want to get pissed off, **** em.

 

[redbirdfan1]

NSA will be changing bat rules about the same time. Rumor has it they will require that the barrel and endcap be one piece. Meaning no removable endcaps. There is also a strong rumor that ASA will be changing bat restrictions to allow 1.2 bpf bats once they fully implement the .52/275 ball.

Also not every single player will replace all the bats in his bag with brand new 2012 bats. It will be a gradual process.

I bet secondary market prices on utrip bats next year are relatively uneffected by this news. Guys will still want to swing the hottest bats available. As the manufacturers get the new bats on the market and send out warranty returns that are 2013 compliant, the supply of older bats will fall but the demand will still exist.

Bats might not bring a premium, but they will sell for a reasonable price. no one is going to lose their shirt on this one.

there has been no proof of NSA switching to my knowledge. no announcement to date from NSA.

If anyone thinks this is going to stop the cheating going on, well you have another thing coming. People will always find a way.

I think one thing nobody seems to think about is will bat companies make a switch to comply w/ what associations want? More so if NSA wants bats like that, who is to say Worth or anyone is going to manufacture bats like that. Its one thing to make a new stamp for a bat, it another to switch how they manufacture these bats.

 

[hookumsnivy]

there has been no proof of NSA switching to my knowledge. no announcement to date from NSA.

If anyone thinks this is going to stop the cheating going on, well you have another thing coming. People will always find a way.

I think one thing nobody seems to think about is will bat companies make a switch to comply w/ what associations want? More so if NSA wants bats like that, who is to say Worth or anyone is going to manufacture bats like that. Its one thing to make a new stamp for a bat, it another to switch how they manufacture these bats.

There has been no proof of NSA making a change?

Unless the bat is made of one-piece construction or
interchangeable two – piece barrel construction with the barrel
end closed, it should have a tamper resistant rubber or plastic
insert in the barrel. Beginning with 2012 season, all
manufactured bats MUST HAVE a tamper proof end cap or
rolled over end.

That's straight out of the rule book.

 

[BigTexCowboy]

. If you would like to call to discuss this matter to better clarify the rule please do so at any time. xxx-xxx-xxxx

this made me laugh. Why the **** would he want to talk to some umpire idiot from Maryland who obviously has reading comprehension trouble?

 

[MAYHEM#21]

can you buy a forever stamp like the post office?

 

[Dick360]

can you buy a forever stamp like the post office?

If so I'll take 5 books.

 

[rkjunior]

If ASA was smart, they would implement the new ball and allow all soon-to-be-banned usssa bats.

 

[Dick360]

If ASA was smart, they would implement the new ball and allow all soon-to-be-banned usssa bats.

If that happened I would convert both my Men's team and my Coed team from primarily U-trip to primarily ASA.

 

[philphan89]

If ASA was smart, they would implement the new ball and allow all soon-to-be-banned usssa bats.

that would mean no salvo is the best ASA bat ever created!

 

[rkjunior]

If that happened I would convert both my Men's team and my Coed team from primarily U-trip to primarily ASA.

That's what I mean -- They could take a lot of the teams away from Utrip.

 

[Dick360]

That's what I mean -- They could take a lot of the teams away from Utrip.

I couldn't agree with you more. Nobody likes people who swing shaved bats, but the one thing I like less than playing against people swinging glass is the idea of having wasted a ton of money on my now useless bats. If ASA gives me a place to use all my bats on a regular basis, I'll jump at that opportunity and encourage everyone I know to do the same.

 

[Geezer000]

how do you know they aren't going to require tamper proof caps in USSSA? all this release says is that they are going to change the testing soon and require a new stamp. they have not said PUBLICLY what the changes are going to be yet. i've had to repeat this many many times already. its not that hard to understand

If a new stamp is required I wonder if we'll be able to get our bats re-certified for use after 2012 like the good old days...

 

[Joker]

If a new stamp is required I wonder if we'll be able to get our bats re-certified for use after 2012 like the good old days...

no .

 

[bearski]

there are other leagues you can use the bat in.outlaw leagues. WSL

 

[Dick360]

there are other leagues you can use the bat in.outlaw leagues. WSL

Is WSL a nation wide organization? Do they have a website? I've heard of it, but I'm not sure if they have it in WA.

 

[The Crimedog]

no i just have a proper understanding of the english language

Then you would have typed this:

No, I just have a proper understanding of the English language.

 

[Joker]

Then you would have typed this:

No, I just have a proper understanding of the English language.

i've said it before i'll say it again. punctuation and capitalization is for chumps

 

[BIG KAT 27]

everyone hates cheaters... we all know that..... just impose a lifetime ban from ALL associations 2 any an everyone caught... also add a healthy fine on top of the ban.... if the owner of the bat in question refuses 2 give up the bat for testing suspend him from ALL play until he does... also people if know someone swinging a shaved bat call him out in front of everyone... how gives a **** if they get mad

 

[Sully]

This **** isn't hard to understand. Why would USSSA implement a new bat standard to cut down on cheating, then allow you to use the old bats forever. That's wishful thinking not realistic.

I have a lot of USSSA bats, but I will get the new ones, just like most of the people on here bitching and play with the new standard. It happened to an extent in ASA and the sky was falling then too. It wasn't nearly as close to the apocalypse as everyone thought and ASA still seems to be doing pretty well.

Admit it, you know cheaters, you didn't have the balls to police your teammates and friends, and now you have to buy new bats as a result. Will people cheat? Yes. Will they probably find a way to alter these bats? Yes. Will it make the ball come off a little slower, even if it's altered. Probably. Will it make it even more apparent when someone shaves a bat. Yep.

So continue to Boo Hoo, buy the new bats, continue to play USSSA and move on. Remember this new memo also comes with not only a new bat standard, but the idea most major tourneys are going to have compression testing and the bat will get tossed if it is too hot even if it's just because "it's well broken in". Can people still cheat at the smaller tourneys? Yep. Then when they get to the States and Worlds they have to make the decision to swing clean or risk getting busted and banned. It seems like it would be easier to swing clean the whole time, but that probably won't happen.

 

[Sully]

everyone hates cheaters... we all know that..... just impose a lifetime ban from ALL associations 2 any an everyone caught... also add a healthy fine on top of the ban.... if the owner of the bat in question refuses 2 give up the bat for testing suspend him from ALL play until he does... also people if know someone swinging a shaved bat call him out in front of everyone... how gives a **** if they get mad

How do you catch the cheaters? Most of the time the good cheaters couldn't be caught unless you sent off their bat to be checked. Take a look at some of the threads with people whining when that was suggested for hitting a pitcher. "You can't take my bat. That's not fair, I can't swing with any bat but THAT particular bat."

The problem is there are so many people cheating you are going to get a LOT of bitching if you try to implement any measure to help catch cheaters.

 

[eHall]

How do you catch the cheaters? Most of the time the good cheaters couldn't be caught unless you sent off their bat to be checked. Take a look at some of the threads with people whining when that was suggested for hitting a pitcher. "You can't take my bat. That's not fair, I can't swing with any bat but THAT particular bat."

The problem is there are so many people cheating you are going to get a LOT of bitching if you try to implement any measure to help catch cheaters.

I agree. softball players might be some of the most fickle/bitching group of people out there. if its not balls or bats, its playing against sandbaggers.

Go play ASA or NSA if it is that big of deal.

I would love to see compression testers given to every utrip state director for onsite testing at all qualifiers and higher. Test every bat at check in.

 

[chillywilly777]

I agree. softball players might be some of the most fickle/bitching group of people out there. if its not balls or bats, its playing against sandbaggers.

Go play ASA or NSA if it is that big of deal.

I would love to see compression testers given to every utrip state director for onsite testing at all qualifiers and higher. Test every bat at check in.

That will never happen, most directors barely do their job now.

 

[hitmachine44]

That will never happen, most directors barely do their job now.

Not to mention the fact that compression testers are one big crap shoot.

 

[bearski]

cheaters will always cheat. look at barry bonds. i think its for the bat companies want to make more money.people will cheat with balls.like bonds he cheating to get strength your not gonna stop that. even with no standards it would not stop the cheating. Your gonna have to have scanners or xray machines,scales and testers for every bat and every game league or tourny.Seriously. cheating is terrible and alot of people get hurt because of it but we all shouldnt be punished the 90% that dont cheat has to go out and spend 300 on a brand new bat cause we cant buy a used one cause its not what they want. THIS IS BS..

 

[hitman444]

That's great that utrip is following ASA in changing their standards. What I have a problem with is, according to this post, the possibility of not grandfathering in any bats past a certain point!!! Absolutely stupid, and it sucks for those that have quite a few bats!!! Very dissapointed, if it's true!