Is the game actually ruined?
- Thread starter swingnmiss
- Start date
swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
This isn't settled yet? Is the game "ruint" or not? I don't like how it is now. First you set home run limits, then you restrict the bats, then you restrict the balls?? What's next? A velocity meter that reads how fast the ball is coming off the bat and if you exceed it, it will be an automatic out?? Seems to be the direction it's going. I'd rather play the game I started out playing, but it seems like no one else does.
swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
Sure............And if the men don't want to be the same men as the above mentioned men...........Give them bats and balls that allow them to be the level or men lesser than the men above who are men that want to be men.
swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
King of what I'm proposing. We all kind of know what the "Nataional ASA/USSSA" rules on balls and bats and home runs are. But, how come league directors aren't opening it up? Have the leeway to say, "If you're playing upper you're going to be hitting 44/400's and get 6 home runs. If you decide to go to Nationals, you're going to be hitting 52/300's and get 3 home runs." And make that progressively less as the classifications go down. Seems to me the money is made at the local league level more than the National Tourney level. Tons teams and players play that than go to Nationals....Opening it up, may bring more players out to play, and be an incentive for more players to move up. That just seems logical to me.
Two homeruns isn't enough incentive to move up. Once they get that, I think the rest will take care of itself. I used to think division based equipment was stupid, but I'm beginning to think it might be the only way to get people to move up.
How was the game when you started playing. You started with singlewalls, but polycores, right?
CarlsbadDrew
Addicted to Softballfans
The best thing for softball would be a single national association that ONLY focuses on adult slowpitch (not other sports & age groups like asa/utrip). Can you imagine how awesome it would be to have the following?
-quality, but tamper proof bats from the manufacturers mandated by the association.
-Great balls
-a singular national player ratings list with more functionality. Player photos, and actual identifying info.
-a worlds event that encourages teams nationally to play up. Leverage sponsors and TV money for massive cash prize payouts. Attract ex MLB players to the major level to garner more press/pr and TV time.
Payout the most to the highest divisions at the worlds.
- 1 miilion / majors
- 500k / A's
- 250k / B's
- 125k / C's
- etc etc
-Regional directors running strong and consistent programs that actually offer real prizes. (cool brah... we won a "birth"?)
-Get rid of E the way it is now. ONLY allow 1st year registered players to play E's. This will assist in filling out other divisions.
Just my thoughts
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swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
Yeah, the balls were superhard, but the bats weren't terrible. A Rich's Superior, Blue TPS, a Powerdome or Steele's XLT would get the job done easily. We started out with no hr limilt in the uppers (B), then got it moved to 8, with middle (C) getting 5 and lowers (D) getting three....... To me it was so much more fun. We got our limit and used the best equipment available. Everyone was playing. Now the bats are pretty good, the balls are ****, the hr limits are low, even the highest divisions in most areas and the game is dying. How can people not see the correlation?
OldguyinHavasu
Addicted to Softballfans
its these kind of discussions that STARTED all those different associations... "We don't like ASA rules, we'll make our own" and thus, USSSA was born..."Well, we don't like U-trip OR ASA, so we'll do things our way" Here comes NSA, and GSL, and all the other little dominions that want to tweak and reinterpret the same basic rules.
swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
What exactly is your point to this?? We're not talking about re-inventing the game. Just opening it up at the local levels more in an effort to get people interested in playing. We're not changing base distances, pitching distances, arc, speed or fakes...........Doing the exact same game, but using a different ball and allowing more balls to go out of the park at the higher local levels. So, to be honest.....Your post lost me...........
I was just making sure you didn't start with Cork, where it took a really good poke to get one out. I'm fine with everything you say as long as they find a way to move people up. Nobody's going to come out and pick up the game when they do now and they get their eyes beat in by a bunch of guys way above their level. Opening up the hrs will make the game better, but to make the participation grow up we have to stop the sandbagging.
swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
Agree on the sandbagging.
STLCoach
Nobiscum Deus
I've been posting here since 2004 so you're going to have to do better than that.
I think they should do what the Senior's do. You have a player card (Like a drivers license) with your pic, rank level, teams you've played on and currently play on, and you present it when you check in for every tournament, Charge $25.00 per person, Per year. Once you get moved up, You cannot move down (for any reason in a hope that this will keep the sandbagging to a minimum) Have the governing body actually enforce the rules and take away the appeals process for only certain situations. Anymore teams that dominate divisions locally anyone can appeal down and it gets approved just like that because they didn't finish high in State, Regional, World, or Super World.
1badtrain
Addicted to Softballfans
My senior card only has my name, age group, registration number and picture on it. Did they just recently start putting all the other info?
ImminentDanger
Up and Over
The game is where it's at because of:
A) Chasing The Money without regard to the long-term integrity of the game - The Guilty: The Associations, the bat manufacturers and the local tournament directors.
B) Chasing The Win without respect for rules or the long-term integrity of the game - The Guilty: Sandbaggers and Cheaters
Until the associations, the bat makers and the TDs are willing to do what's right for the game, as a first priority, even at a loss of revenue, the problem won't be fixed... (although done correctly, I really think it would increase revenue)
AND - Unless the sandbaggers and cheaters get a right attitude of wanting to (or forced to) be truly competitive on a level playing field, above the guarantee to stomp the less-than-equal competition, the problem won't be fixed...
All the rule changes regarding home runs or equipment won't solve these two basic problems which stem from a breakdown in the ethical attitude of those involved.
The game is ruined - and will continue to decline - because THE GAME is not foremost in the thoughts and actions of either group...
Those who are truly interested in level-playing fields and true competition (yes, for fun and recreation) are too small a percentage or too quiet vocally to force sanity back into the situation...
-ID-
A) Chasing The Money without regard to the long-term integrity of the game - The Guilty: The Associations, the bat manufacturers and the local tournament directors.
B) Chasing The Win without respect for rules or the long-term integrity of the game - The Guilty: Sandbaggers and Cheaters
Until the associations, the bat makers and the TDs are willing to do what's right for the game, as a first priority, even at a loss of revenue, the problem won't be fixed... (although done correctly, I really think it would increase revenue)
AND - Unless the sandbaggers and cheaters get a right attitude of wanting to (or forced to) be truly competitive on a level playing field, above the guarantee to stomp the less-than-equal competition, the problem won't be fixed...
All the rule changes regarding home runs or equipment won't solve these two basic problems which stem from a breakdown in the ethical attitude of those involved.
The game is ruined - and will continue to decline - because THE GAME is not foremost in the thoughts and actions of either group...
Those who are truly interested in level-playing fields and true competition (yes, for fun and recreation) are too small a percentage or too quiet vocally to force sanity back into the situation...
-ID-
ball go far
Addicted to Softballfans
people are ruined, not the game
come on peeps...SUCKA FREE
come on peeps...SUCKA FREE
swingnmiss
#1 IN YOUR HEARTS
You're ruint!
bamaboy1626
You need my opinion!!!
people keep saying call them out...... that doesn't work. There has to be some enforcement.
Exactly.
It's just my word against theirs.
In tournies I've played down here with the "hit a pitcher we take the bat rule" the bat just gets given back.
I played in a world tournament where we pointed out an illegal bat to the umps and they allowed it.
I played in another where the umps threw a player from the opposing team out, and wouldn't tell us who it was so we could get the out when their spot in the lineup came back up.
I'm not calling anyone out when nothing gets done. I can't think of anything else I've ever participated in where I'm supposed to do so many people's jobs for them, and simultaneously received absolutely nothing when I actually do. I used to feel like an enabler when I didn't call people out, but no more.
ball go far
Addicted to Softballfans
i say pitcher hit, hack saw the bat right there
shaved and the guy is on the spot for an ass kicking
unscrupulous asshats that shave dc41's need to be kicked in the shins by a mule
shaved and the guy is on the spot for an ass kicking
unscrupulous asshats that shave dc41's need to be kicked in the shins by a mule
Sully
Wanna buy jerseys/rings?
Why not get rid of E Worlds? If there isn't a State or Worlds tournament, they won't play E, they will be forced to play D. Once you play D, you are D and can't go back down. Make E's actually E's, not 1/3 of the team can be D's. E's are SUPPOSED to be rec players. That's why USSSA started going inning ending outs and ejections, to try to force people to move up. There were still 80 E teams in Toys for Tots and a good chunk of them weren't E teams. Luckily for them, half or more of the games are on open fields and they removed the ejection part of the rule for the tournament.
The shaved bat thing is bad, it's so common place the cheaters outnumber the legit players, but I don't think that's as much of an issue as the sandbagging. If you want new blood to come out, you have to figure out a way to get people to play up so the new people don't pay $450 plus an association fee to get blasted 32-8 in two games and go home.
The shaved bat thing is bad, it's so common place the cheaters outnumber the legit players, but I don't think that's as much of an issue as the sandbagging. If you want new blood to come out, you have to figure out a way to get people to play up so the new people don't pay $450 plus an association fee to get blasted 32-8 in two games and go home.
That's why I think the 52 across the boards is the answer. These guys that have played their whole lives in the dead ball era of the last 10 years (2004 when ASA went to the 44/375 and NSA went to the 44/525 and I didn't play anything else back then, but now they hit 40s in UTrip) when the ball doesn't bounce think the 52s bounce like crazy, but new blood won't. They won't know the difference. It'll be like, IMO, when I started playing. Your new guys can come out with their 10 dollar bat and won't be as good as the lifers with their very good bats, but the difference won't be like it is now. They might not be scared off the field. Maybe we'll go back to playing your way up instead of cheating and conniving your way to the top. Maybe.
ddoubler
Addicted to Softballfans
I think participation is down bc guys who have played a long time are getting out and it's been up to the young guy to put a team together. That generation lacks leadership and the capacity it takes to out a team together. When they do out a team together, they want instant gratification and when they don't win it becomes not worth it to them
That generation lacks athletes that want to put that time in. My very first church league team, every one of us had played some sport. My first men's league team, every one of us had played baseball.
Since that time, I've seen several teams started by guys that you wouldn't call athletes. They had teams when I started too, I just played sports so my friends did too, etc. Since the Ultra, I've seen non-athletes start teams, and the only ones that lasted for a while were guys that sucked, and the new bats (and shaving sometimes) made them able to compete. The church and work teams with Cyclones and Hammers got drummed out.
For the sport to grow on the weekends, we need feeder teams. For it to grow during the week we need everyone to be able to come out and have a good time. That doesn't happen now, and a team of 10 might put 2-3 guys on another week team when the rest of the guys quit. Now we barely have enough of those guys and leftover old guys to have a league.
Cliffs notes, if we want to stop playing the same guys every weekend we need to make leagues better for everyone and if you're a tourney guy stop beating the hell out of guys without a clue because you're a douche that can't bust a grape against real competition.
Truth.....
My first work league team I played on, we played against law firms and all kinds of groups. 25-55 year old men and women that just thought it'd be fun to go out for a day. That doesn't happen anymore, and it's not because the kids don't have the attention span, blah blah blah. Yes, everyone is busy, money is tighter, and all of that, but is that the reason? That would negate some, but the real reason is softball has lost it's company picnic mass appeal. The game/sport that at some level any Joe can walk out of a cornfield, show up with a glove, and play and have fun.