Juggy > Future. True story.

WarHorse

WarHorse

Star Player
On a small bat (34" long) that weighs more than the handle, the torque of the bat is going to be enough to bend the handle, even if just a little bit, which will bring the bat around faster as the bat is straightened out. Flex happens when swinging anything, from a wooden stick, to a lead pipe, due to the rotational motion of the bat and the force of the end of the bat.

The stiffer the material, the less it will flex. For people who swing quickly, this flex is minimized due to a straighter swing (the bat is never pulled, it usually remains straight). For a slower, more powerful hitter, the bat is pulled a bit until the arms are straightened out, in which case the energy stored in the flex of the bat carries the bat's momentum forward, giving the barrel of the bat a speed boost. The speed of the handle doesn't matter, it's the barrel that does. If you put a lot of strength into a swing and rely more on strength than speed, bat flex will greatly help you. If you keep a fluid motion in swing, a stiffer bat will help you.

Another way to think about it is to ignore the term flex, and think of elasticity. Some handles are a bit more elastic than others. The J3A vs AM really prove that. Some people love the J3A, some love the AM, but it's hard to find a lot of people who love them both equally. One usually works a lot better than the other. In Brads case, I'd bet he probably puts a bit more upper body muscle into his swing and gets more benefit from the elasticity of the J4's handle.

So that begs the question, Brad, when you swing do you feel like you put more of your torso into the swing?

And for all you nay sayers, I have a much harder time with the J3 than the AM due to the fact that I can feel the bats motion and I don't like it. The flex doesn't occur as noticeably as something like a golf club, but you're full of **** if you think it only occurs on "mis hits"
 
J

justwhippin

Addicted to Softballfans
vlcmstnaz said:
stop it. there is no true pre-contact flex. flex only comes into play on mis-hits. if your timing is off or you are missing the sweetspot, the bat will dampen the vibrations. my experience is that the juggy line with GREATLY reward quality swings (NO MATTER THE SWING SPEED), but hamper performance on a swing that is "off" for one reason or another. SWING SPEED has nothing to do with it. stop it.
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Yes this^^^^^ Juggies are not very forgiving on miss-hits so guys who have swing issues will blame the flex but it's the indian and not the arrow. Most juggies have sweetspots towards the middle of the barrel and if you hit towards the end more than likely you won't like the results. If this is your case swing a stiffer handle bat and the performace won't drop off as bad as it will on a bat with flex
 
WarHorse

WarHorse

Star Player
Tell me, scientifically, how a stick with a mass on the end does not bend in transit, straighten out at mid point, and then bow on exit. And then tell me how this process only occurs on "miss hits."

Because it doesn't. The handle of the J3 is very elastic compared to the AM, Fu, and Future. It's going to bend more in transit, bow more on exit than any of those bats, and that's a property of the thickness of the handle and the material used in creating/reinforcing the handle.
 
B

B-radical

Addicted to Softballfans
Woodi said:
Flex thing comes from the og juggy. There were videos and pic that showed the bat flexing. I'm not taking any sides but I do know that the juggy has a "softer" barrel and the flex index on the handle indicates it's not as stiff. There were videos on the og juggy with the handle being bet on a knee showing it flex.
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I don't see how hitting a ball on the barrel will make it flex like bending the handle over one's knee.........
 
B

B-radical

Addicted to Softballfans
WarHorse said:
In Brads case, I'd bet he probably puts a bit more upper body muscle into his swing and gets more benefit from the elasticity of the J4's handle.

So that begs the question, Brad, when you swing do you feel like you put more of your torso into the swing?
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I don't change anything from swinging one bat to the next.

I don't see how you think everything flexes, you just don't feel it, till you get crappy results, then it must be because of the flexy feeling.....
 
WarHorse

WarHorse

Star Player
B-radical said:
I don't see how hitting a ball on the barrel will make it flex like bending the handle over one's knee.........
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The flex actually comes from the swing, not contact, though an elasticity and flex effect could be made by contact. The bat is travelling forward on contact already from the swing. The best place to hit the ball on a "flex" bat is right when the bat is straightening out, because at that moment all of the potential energy it has stored from the rotation is now converted into kinetic which pushes the barrel forward and throws the ball off of it, transferring that kinetic energy into momentum. The impact of the ball on the barrel will displace the barrel further, increasing the trampoline effect, and if powerful enough it can actually reverse the "flex" of the handle, returning all of that kinetic energy back into potential, and then causing the barrel to "throw" the ball off of it with the momentum of both the swing, the trampoline effect, and the flex of handle.

It's actually not very complex physics that goes into it. Spring mechanics is really the closest thing to it since the elasticity of the barrel and handle are both constants based on the materials used.
 
B

B-radical

Addicted to Softballfans
I don't see any flex in the bat during Larsen's swing.....and surely with his swing it would do it....
 
MPT23

MPT23

Putting on the foil
Woodi said:
Flex thing comes from the og juggy. There were videos and pic that showed the bat flexing. I'm not taking any sides but I do know that the juggy has a "softer" barrel and the flex index on the handle indicates it's not as stiff. There were videos on the og juggy with the handle being bet on a knee showing it flex.
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I prefer the older models myself and can honestly say this is the case with most of my bats. Cant say about seeing it, but i can definitely feel them flex. JS
 
dynatone

dynatone

Addicted to Softballfans
Easton4Life said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUyBIcx41A
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I love how this old video keeps getting good mileage lol.

Someone mentioned a golf club . . . . . some get better results having a regular shaft in their clubs . . . . . some get better results with a stiff shaft (or extra stiff or senior or ladies flex) in their clubs.

My golf clubs have stiff shafts and I like the stiffer bats. I dislike anything Jxx.

Your mileage may vary.
 
Woodi

Woodi

Addicted to Softballfans
Take note the slow swing speed.......

Jk but seriously the bending over a knee just showed the flex. What it boils down to is that not every bat will fit everybody's swing.
 
dynatone

dynatone

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justwhippin said:
Don't compare golf shafts to bat handles... not at all the same
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It does in the sense that, for me, the barrel position of a stiffer bat during the swing better matches where my brain thinks it should be (like at contact).

That doesn't happen for me with the Jxx.

Give it any explanation you wish. Could be old age, could be "flex", could be dementia.
:)
 
J

justwhippin

Addicted to Softballfans
Woodi said:
Take note the slow swing speed.......

Jk but seriously the bending over a knee just showed the flex. What it boils down to is that not every bat will fit everybody's swing.
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It takes alot of force to bend it over your knee.... nothing you do in a swing will put that kind of force to the handle
 
WarHorse

WarHorse

Star Player
justwhippin said:
It takes alot of force to bend it over your knee.... nothing you do in a swing will put that kind of force to the handle
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Are you kidding me? The amount of force generated from a swing can easily quadrouple the force of a body builder bending a bat over his knee.
 
J

justwhippin

Addicted to Softballfans
dynatone said:
It does in the sense that, for me, the barrel position of a stiffer bat during the swing better matches where my brain thinks it should be (like at contact).

That doesn't happen for me with the Jxx.

Give it any explanation you wish. Could be old age, could be "flex", could be dementia.
:)
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Golf shafts are very long and very skinny and would flex much more than any juggy would ever come close to ijs:bigok:
 
WarHorse

WarHorse

Star Player
OnlySolo said:
Lol at all this flex during the swing talk. Sorry war horse but your wrong in this argument.
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Using physics, I challenge you to prove it. I challenge you to prove that having a mass on the end of a rod will not cause the rod to bend during rotational motion. If you can prove that I have a nobel prize with your name on it because you've just disproved everything we know about rotational physics.
 
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