Overlap grip vs. conventional (again)

[jhitman]

I was always so worried about losing distance with the conventional grip. Thing is, lately I'm not. If anything I'm hitting the ball further with a conventional grip than I do with the overlap.

I clubbed a couple balls about 415' last week with the conventional grip. Many more in the 380' range. I obviously can do that distance using the overlap grip, but not nearly as consistently. The culprit is lack of backspin.

I feel like the top hand is actually providing some distance. The whip is coming later. Lots of times with the overlap grip I felt like I was releasing the top hand too early and not getting enough push.

IDK, the conventional grip just feels so much cleaner. I don't feel like I'm guessing as much, and I've been mis hitting the ball so much less. Way less casting/lunging as well. I'm hitting the ball deeper in the zone, and I'm not seeing any more of those hooking, sidespin shots.

I think it is much cleaner as you have more fingers on the bat to give you more control. I tried doing what you are doing a few years ago and felt I lost a little distance but had better control. But if you are getting as much distance with it and better control I would stick with it. Also, since it's relatively new you might want to give it a little time to see if it stays consistent. I get excited about tweaks all the time then a month later it's not working the same way.

 

[dunkky]

two years ago, when I tried full overlap, I loved it and i practiced a lot with it. And i did see some 10, 15ft distance gain with 27oz 1oz endload. but most of all, I really liked the fact that the bat does the more work than my hand and arm and I noticed my elbow hurts a lot less.

now, I can't say the same, just like TW, I don't see no distance gain as result of changes on my end, not overlap grip. I am now only dropping a pinky and only pinky overlap. I still want my bat to do more work than my top hand. It's what I prefer. I am having a lot fun doing bp nowadays, I've been trying something new. I never have attempted cutting the ball before, because it's not something i should mess with my skill level. To my surprise, I didn't do too bad. I love that the way the ball flies off the barrel and I just slap that **** now rather than trying to muscle it out. I'll post a video again when the weather is warmer and my elbow hurts less. Believe it or now, i am popping the ball less and seeing more hard ground balls, which is what i want.

 

[TWmccoy]

Since you are still dropping 2 fingers off the bottom of the bat you are still getting the bat whip like an overlap grip would provide. My guess is that you have your whole top hand on the bat you get a better feel and are more consistent. Whatever works for you is what you should do. I recently switched back to my interlocking overlap grip. I seem to get better bat control and consistency with it than the regular overlap.

With the top hand on the bat, I get to choose when to snap the bat. With the overlap grip the bat seems to act more like a pendulum, and snap around on its own.

I've also been making a conscious effort to let the ball get deeper before attacking it lately. That has made a ton of difference. Better contact, less knucklers.

 

[TWmccoy]

I think it is much cleaner as you have more fingers on the bat to give you more control. I tried doing what you are doing a few years ago and felt I lost a little distance but had better control. But if you are getting as much distance with it and better control I would stick with it. Also, since it's relatively new you might want to give it a little time to see if it stays consistent. I get excited about tweaks all the time then a month later it's not working the same way.

Yeah, winter is when I do all my tweaking. I hit well this year. It isn't like I used the overlap grip all season and sucked. I just feel like I'm capable of better. I know Tiger Woods overhauled his whole swing one time after winning a major.

I think every player should try new things and always look for ways to improve.

If I have to go back to basics to improve, so be it. I'm not doing anything revolutionary at all here.

I also agree it's disappointing to have success with trying something new, only for it not to work as well later on. Everyone will have that magical BP where they can do no wrong. Then next time out nothing is the same.

 

[TWmccoy]

two years ago, when I tried full overlap, I loved it and i practiced a lot with it. And i did see some 10, 15ft distance gain with 27oz 1oz endload. but most of all, I really liked the fact that the bat does the more work than my hand and arm and I noticed my elbow hurts a lot less.

now, I can't say the same, just like TW, I don't see no distance gain as result of changes on my end, not overlap grip. I am now only dropping a pinky and only pinky overlap. I still want my bat to do more work than my top hand. It's what I prefer. I am having a lot fun doing bp nowadays, I've been trying something new. I never have attempted cutting the ball before, because it's not something i should mess with my skill level. To my surprise, I didn't do too bad. I love that the way the ball flies off the barrel and I just slap that **** now rather than trying to muscle it out. I'll post a video again when the weather is warmer and my elbow hurts less. Believe it or now, i am popping the ball less and seeing more hard ground balls, which is what i want.

Cutting the ball has a time and place. I've cut the ball for years, but I don't do it all the time. I usually only cut a ball if I want to hit a HR against a headwind or massacre an infielder. Cutting the ball isn't a very high percentage swing. Done properly it's beautiful. Done wrong it's a 1 hopper to 3B or an infield popup. I've also hit lots of DBOs when attempting to cut balls into the LC gap.

That said, cutting the ball with a conventional grip is WAAAYYYY easier than cutting it with an overlap grip. You need all the bat control you can get while cutting the ball.

 

[tonys1]

Yeah, but pros cut the ball, bro. Let me find you a pic of __________.

 

[dunkky]

lol.. i call it cutting. but may not be what you guys are thinking. i don't aim for the bottom part of the ball nor do a downward swing. I am not that skilled. Probably level swing is all I am doing. I have to video tape it to see what i am doing but definitely, something was different. whatever it was, my swing felt better when contact was made. And i could tell balls were spinning more and ground balls were harder.

I agree with you TW, that was the main reason, why i gave a try just for fun since only my top pinky is down. I don't think cutting and full overlap go together. You really have to apply top hand.

 

[Hiltz]

Cutting means hitting the bottom half of the ball to impart backspin. You can do that with a slight downswing, a level swing, or a slight uppercut.

I've seen so many guys say they were "working on cutting the ball" by swinging down at a 45* angle. They'll hit one rising liner and ten 5-hoppers to the SS and then brag about the liner.

 

[Steve Butler]

Went out and hit off the Tee yesterday and started using 2 fingers on top hand instead of 1 and was pleased with what I saw. Gonna keep using it. I was able to hit the ball where I wanted more consistently.

 

[TWmccoy]

Overlap grip is officially done for me. I hit another 150 balls in the cold yesterday. Took me probably 30 swings to get loose, but once I did I loved the results. Way less mis hits with the conventional grip. I feel like the top hand is PROVIDING power rather than costing it. IDK, I just feel like I'm snapping later and pushing into the ball more with the top hand than before. With the overlap grip I (obviously) had no top hand involvement, and it felt like I was releasing the top hand off the bat too early at times. Also, I was catching the ball too far out in front.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, with the overlap grip I felt like I generated power in a centrifugal type way. The bat would whip around on its own naturally. I wasn't making any conscious effort to snap at the ball.

With a conventional grip I feel like I'm waiting longer and using the top hand to impart a vicious and deliberate snap on the ball.

I swear I'm getting MORE power with the conventional grip than I ever did with the overlap. Thing is, I'm doing it consistently. With the overlap I'd massacre a ball every once in a while, then miss several after that. With the conventional grip I'm driving the ball with authority and spin far more consistently.

One other thing I'm noticing about the conventional grip is the ability to better steer the ball. I purposely waited on a few pitches that were in the center of the plate and hit them to CF. With the overlap grip before I would have swung earlier on those pitches and pulled them. A couple of CF shots with the conventional grip went over 400'. Also, on inside pitches I'm better able to get inside the ball using a conventional grip. With the overlap grip I'd always bail out early on an inside pitch and pull it foul with sidespin. Not anymore.

Everything just seems fine tuned when I use the conventional grip. Better timing, better contact, better spin, better distance.

Rather than being "just along for the ride", my top hand is now taking a very active role in generating snap and power. I know this isn't exactly rocket science, but after 10 years of using the overlap grip it feels like a revelation.

 

[TWmccoy]

Went out and hit off the Tee yesterday and started using 2 fingers on top hand instead of 1 and was pleased with what I saw. Gonna keep using it. I was able to hit the ball where I wanted more consistently.

Let's wait until it gets a little warmer, then I'll meet you for some BP. I'm hitting the ball great right now, and you might enjoy the results.

 

[Hiltz]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, with the overlap grip I felt like I generated power in a centrifugal type way. The bat would whip around on its own naturally. I wasn't making any conscious effort to snap at the ball.

I think this is why so many players (especially rec level) see such a power increase when they first try an overlap; their conventional swing has poor mechanics and little snap and the overlap compensates by causing the bat to whip around on its own. For someone with a good, mechanically sound swing, the overlap adds very little or no improvement.

 

[TWmccoy]

I think this is why so many players (especially rec level) see such a power increase when they first try an overlap; their conventional swing has poor mechanics and little snap and the overlap compensates by causing the bat to whip around on its own. For someone with a good, mechanically sound swing, the overlap adds very little or no improvement.

Yeah, this is pretty much the conclusion I've come to. I like being in control of the snap.

The overlap grip had a time and place for me, but not anymore.

 

[dunkky]

about 4 years ago, someone told me, when you think you are done and mastered your mechanic, that's just beginning of it.

Since I started practicing slicing the ball, I love my new grip. Close to conventional. Love to snap the bat with top hand. pinky on the knob, and pinky overlap from top. For whatever reason, I am making much better contact even swinging downward on low balls. BP is much more entertaining now.

 

[longball101]

about 4 years ago, someone told me, when you think you are done and mastered your mechanic, that's just beginning of it.

Since I started practicing slicing the ball, I love my new grip. Close to conventional. Love to snap the bat with top hand. pinky on the knob, and pinky overlap from top. For whatever reason, I am making much better contact even swinging downward on low balls. BP is much more entertaining now.

Same here. I am not much of a slicer/cutter, but my grip is bottom pinky off, bottom finger and 1/2 to two fingers of top hand on the overlap. Still feel like I have great control and don't even think about the snap, just let it happen.

Everyone should try different ways until you find what really works for you

 

[jhitman]

Yeah, winter is when I do all my tweaking. I hit well this year. It isn't like I used the overlap grip all season and sucked. I just feel like I'm capable of better. I know Tiger Woods overhauled his whole swing one time after winning a major.

I think every player should try new things and always look for ways to improve.

If I have to go back to basics to improve, so be it. I'm not doing anything revolutionary at all here.

I also agree it's disappointing to have success with trying something new, only for it not to work as well later on. Everyone will have that magical BP where they can do no wrong. Then next time out nothing is the same.

I tried in my last session and I did get more bat control but not the distance. I'm always trying to improve. My biggest issue that I'm working on now is the stride and weight transfer. I start too wide and have narrowed my stance a little to get a better slide/glide step forward. It helps to get you off your back leg better as well. Definitely a breakthrough and even though I only hit about 25 balls with it, the results were great. Can't wait to get back out there when Mother Nature will let us. Too much cold and rain lately.....

 

[TWmccoy]

I tried in my last session and I did get more bat control but not the distance. I'm always trying to improve. My biggest issue that I'm working on now is the stride and weight transfer. I start too wide and have narrowed my stance a little to get a better slide/glide step forward. It helps to get you off your back leg better as well. Definitely a breakthrough and even though I only hit about 25 balls with it, the results were great. Can't wait to get back out there when Mother Nature will let us. Too much cold and rain lately.....

I've always started with my feet no more than shoulder width apart. That allows me to take a good stride. The key is to stride while keeping your head back. I find that if my head starts creeping forward I start lunging and generally hitting like crap. I find that if I start with my feet too far apart that I don't get any weight transfer. Everything feels bound up, and I lose distance.

I've also been known to under stride. Again, that leads to hitting like crap. I tend to top a lot of balls when I'm not striding right.

I swear, for years I was telling myself that overlap grip was way better for distance than conventional grip. My experiences lately have told me otherwise. You can generate every bit of the distance with a conventional grip. It just won't feel the same.

 

[TWmccoy]

about 4 years ago, someone told me, when you think you are done and mastered your mechanic, that's just beginning of it.

Since I started practicing slicing the ball, I love my new grip. Close to conventional. Love to snap the bat with top hand. pinky on the knob, and pinky overlap from top. For whatever reason, I am making much better contact even swinging downward on low balls. BP is much more entertaining now.

Cutting the ball is INFINITELY easier with a conventional grip than the overlap. You need top hand control to cut balls consistently.

I also agree that no one is ever done mastering anything. Personally, I always like to tinker and look for ways to improve. When I hit BP I like to hit a lot of balls and look for trends. What's working, and what isn't.

 

[TWmccoy]

I had another decent BP today. Weather was about 60 (warmest it's been here in a while). 150 or so swings. All conventional grip. Great results. I miss SO many less balls with the conventional grip than I did with the overlap grip.

I had a slight tailwind today, and I went over 400' a whole bunch of times. One Pro M shot was probably 440'. I hit it perfectly. I was getting the ball in the air with spin. Even the balls I didn't spin well were sizzling liners that still went 350' on low trajectories.

The top hand ABSOLUTELY provides power.

I'm hitting the ball so much better/harder right now with a conventional grip than I ever did with overlap. Some of that is letting the ball get deeper. With the overlap grip I was always too far out in front. With the conventional grip I let the ball get a lot deeper. I can feel the top hand pushing, rather than limply falling off the bat early, like before.

 

[rmp0012002]

I use a conventional grip and drop the pinkie below the knob. Using the overlap grip is great if you’re just swinging for homers but I lose the control to hit the ball where I want it.

 

[yank]

Not sure why the overlap grip would cause you to swing early and a conventional grip would cause you to wait longer..wouldn't that be more of a timing issue?..I rotate between a full overlap and a partial if I'm having trouble controlling the bat.but yea experiment and see what works for you.

 

[dunkky]

I think it would be better discussion if we distinguish between full overlap or partial.

Those two are very different. full overlap is an animal of its own as there's no top hand involvement. where partial, depends on how many fingers overlap can be very close to conventional.

In TW case, I believe he is talking about full overlap vs conventional. So changes are significant. if you are comparing, 1 or 2 fingers overlap, the changes are not that dramatic.

 

[TWmccoy]

Not sure why the overlap grip would cause you to swing early and a conventional grip would cause you to wait longer..wouldn't that be more of a timing issue?..I rotate between a full overlap and a partial if I'm having trouble controlling the bat.but yea experiment and see what works for you.

I guess the best way I'd describe it is thus.... with an overlap grip, when you start your swing there's nothing to keep the bat back. The barrel swings around on its own like a pendulum. Without the top hand, I found that the barrel was coming around too soon, and in an uncontrolled manner. With a conventional grip, I can choose when the snap happens and keep the barrel back much longer.

With a full overlap grip, I found that I couldn't let the ball get very deep. I'd end up jamming myself really bad. I'd always swing really early and cast at the ball. With the conventional grip, I can stay back and swing later without that happening.

What it really boiled down to was how much control I could exert over the bat with my hands. With an overlap grip there wasn't a lot. With a conventional grip I can flick the bat through the zone without effort. I can wait a while on inside pitches and still get inside the ball (not pulling them foul).

I definitely had timing issues with the overlap grip. Most of the time I was early on the ball. The sloppiness involved with that grip led to the timing issues. With a conventional grip I find that my timing issues have evaporated.

 

[TWmccoy]

I think it would be better discussion if we distinguish between full overlap or partial.

Those two are very different. full overlap is an animal of its own as there's no top hand involvement. where partial, depends on how many fingers overlap can be very close to conventional.

In TW case, I believe he is talking about full overlap vs conventional. So changes are significant. if you are comparing, 1 or 2 fingers overlap, the changes are not that dramatic.

I've dabbled with pretty much all manners of grip. Full overlap, partial overlap, and conventional. I used 2 finger overlap for most of last year. The bat control still wasn't great, and I was having a lot of the same problems I did with full overlap.

What ultimately soured me on the overlap grip was lack of consistency. I could smash balls well over 400' with it, but I mis hit way too many.

 

[TWmccoy]

I use a conventional grip and drop the pinkie below the knob. Using the overlap grip is great if you’re just swinging for homers but I lose the control to hit the ball where I want it.

I found that with an overlap grip I lost my ability to spin the ball consistently. I'd hit everything really hard, but there'd be no finesse. Lots of knucklers or topspin liners.

I agree that using an overlap grip for control or base hitting is a bad idea. It's too sloppy, and you get yourself out a lot.

 

[obagain]

Grip is just a small part of the swing. If you were happy with your swing you wouldn’t change it.
my guess is your confidence was down a bit so you changed, because it was different you had to concentrate a bit more which resulted in better contact, which boost confidence which boosted better contact. see where I’m going?

 

[ABLXTRA]

Been following this thread , TW I think the most important aspect is you are hitting the ball deeper in the zone . This let’s you use your top hand and stay behind the ball rather than your top hand rotating to the top on your swing when your out in front . Your follow through will automatically roll your top hand so contact should be before your wrists roll . If you top hand is over the bat handle not behind when you make contact it will cut your distance and may cause topping of the ball or pop ups . This will happen with either grip.

 

[TWmccoy]

Been following this thread , TW I think the most important aspect is you are hitting the ball deeper in the zone . This lets you use your top hand and stay behind the ball rather than your top hand rotating to the top on your swing when your out in front . Your follow through will automatically roll your top hand so contact should be before your wrists roll . If you top hand is over the bat handle not behind when you make contact it will cut your distance and may cause topping of the ball or pop ups . This will happen with either grip.

I agree with this completely. That's the point I was trying to get across in my ramblings. With the overlap grip, I'd start the swing, but I had no way to keep the bat back. It comes forward on its own. That inevitably leads to the wrists rolling before contact, and (as you mentioned) the top hand being on top of (rather than behind) the bat at contact.

Swinging later and keeping the top hand steady has been a huge difference maker. Now I can literally feel the top hand imparting power to the ball as I snap through it.

This whole experience has made me realize that for years I was hitting the ball too far out in front. With the overlap grip I had no finesse. I could deliver a brutally hard swing to the ball, but that doesn't mean the results were always great. I just got sick of topping everything or hitting random popups on good pitches. I was also hitting too many side spinning hook shots foul down the LF line. The real bonus in the whole thing is that I feel like I've GAINED distance going back to the conventional grip rather than losing it. I know most people go to the overlap grip in first place to gain distance. I definitely did years ago. I just had to physically and psychologically realize that I didn't NEED the overlap grip to gain distance.

Hitting the ball deeper in the zone and before/during the wrist snap is the key.

 

[ABLXTRA]

I went to the overlap in 2008 because I had elbow surgery and had 6 chips removed in 2005 I could not extend my top hand ( my right arm ) like I used too. It actually made me a better hitter because I did not have to pull the ball to hit it out . I could go line to line and drive the ball not just hit the ball. I’m not a HR hitter but get my share. my power is left center to right center . It took a good year before everything clicked . I then got better . Now 10 years later I got lazy with my hand positions on my grip . This lead to a sloppy bat in the “ V “ of my top hand and rolling my hands before contact . I was striking the ball after my wrist started to roll . I did some tea work this past fall an caught this . I could feel the bat move backwards on contact because my top hand was on top ,not behind the bat . I have 2 videos of myself a coach took in 2014 and 2015 . I found them in a folder on my computer .I now have them on my phone . I can reference them now anytime

You mentioned when you pull a ball down the line it hooks . This means you are casting the bat and not keeping your hands inside the ball. You can still pull a ball and keep you hands inside the ball

two things I do now ,I tell myself let the ball fall ( hit it deeper in the zone ) and knob to the ball this will prevent casting the bat .

you should have someone video you while hitting . Straight across like your watching from on deck . You will see your good swings and bad swings , hand position and contact point .

 

[TWmccoy]

I went to the overlap in 2008 because I had elbow surgery and had 6 chips removed in 2005 I could not extend my top hand ( my right arm ) like I used too. It actually made me a better hitter because I did not have to pull the ball to hit it out . I could go line to line and drive the ball not just hit the ball. I’m not a HR hitter but get my share. my power is left center to right center . It took a good year before everything clicked . I then got better . Now 10 years later I got lazy with my hand positions on my grip . This lead to a sloppy bat in the “ V “ of my top hand and rolling my hands before contact . I was striking the ball after my wrist started to roll . I did some tea work this past fall an caught this . I could feel the bat move backwards on contact because my top hand was on top ,not behind the bat . I have 2 videos of myself a coach took in 2014 and 2015 . I found them in a folder on my computer .I now have them on my phone . I can reference them now anytime

You mentioned when you pull a ball down the line it hooks . This means you are casting the bat and not keeping your hands inside the ball. You can still pull a ball and keep you hands inside the ball

two things I do now ,I tell myself let the ball fall ( hit it deeper in the zone ) and knob to the ball this will prevent casting the bat .

you should have someone video you while hitting . Straight across like your watching from on deck . You will see your good swings and bad swings , hand position and contact point .

I appreciate all the insight. I used the conventional grip until 2010. For the next decade I used almost entirely overlap. Looking back, I feel like using the overlap grip for that long was a mistake. I hit well during that time, but I was always mis hitting too many balls. Giving away too many ABs.

The overlap grip produced massive distance at times, but generally not great consistency. I'd go from hitting a 400' HR one AB to grounding out the next 2. With the overlap, the highs were high and the lows were REALLY low. If you're having a bad day with the overlap grip the results can be comically inept.

It's so easy to get lazy with the overlap grip. If you don't put full focus into it you'll find yourself taking incredibly bad, uncontrolled swings. On my worst days I was always way out in front of the ball, making contact well after the wrists had rolled. I also missed the sweetspot frequently.

I've taken about 1000 swings in BP this winter, almost all of them with the conventional grip. During that time I've learned a lot, mainly that I didn't NEED to use an overlap grip to generate the power I desire. At this point I feel like using an overlap grip is like taking a placebo to combat disease.