Minnesota 2015: Dead thread

Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus

Slap Hands!
If they could prove he was playing on more than one team at the very least he should get the door. Why even put your real team in jeopardy.

We are in Fargo this weekend. Mcquades was a hard pass by most everyone. Long drive and funky bracket setup. I've heard its a pretty cool site to see.
 
NDshotokan

NDshotokan

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I've got drill this weekend, otherwise I'd come introduce myself at the Mich Golden.

McQuades is a hike for you fellas, but you really need to plan a year and go. It's beyond anything I've ever experienced. Like WeFest with softball games going on around you.
 
B

Beauner

Starting Player
Maximus Decimus said:
What is going on at these big tournaments..... what happened to DMVW in the D bracket is a joke. They played the same CF two games in a row. They protested and the ump said finish the game and talk to the director. They lose the game and talk to the director. I'm sure what happened between the end of the game and when they were suppose to play again but the team they lost to starts playing so DMVW is eliminated, after some time they we're told they should have won the protest and we're offered a pitcher of beer instead continuing to play. Maybe capping the tournaments at manageable amounts for your size of staff should be considered. These tournaments are fundraisers and qualifiers. Also being a fundraiser shouldn't be a default excuse and what level of ball your playing shouldn't determine which rules get followed.
Click to expand...
I was talking to a guy on the team that they protested. He said they OK'd it with DMVW before the game that the guy was going to play with them. Then TCD started winning and DMVW decided to change their mind and protest.

I get that the TD probably hosed up, but if you're going to give the opponent the OK to have a guy play for them that isn't on their roster, don't turn around and throw a hissy fit if you lose to them.

Now if the guy fed me a bunch of BS and they didn't clear it with DMVW beforehand, then yeah they definitely got hosed. And I agree with rmothes (I think it was him) who said the teams that roster check in general get too much heat. They are playing by the rules. So should their opponent.
 
Last edited:
R

rock2131

Extra Hitter
I played in "The Protest game" and first of all we hit really bad and probably would have lost that game had they played with 9, that being said this is how it went down. We alerted the Umpire in the bottom of the first that their center fielder had just played against us in the previous game and they admitted it at which time we said we are protesting the game. Now here is where I don't believe it was handled correctly(not having been apart of a protested game I am not sure how it is supposed to be handled) The umpire said there really isn't anything he can do and its up to the TD so we continued to play the game. At the end of the game which we lost we asked the umpire about the protest again which at that time he called the TD and said we needed to go and speak with him(mind you the entire time we were being yelled and sworn at by the team we just lost too). After a free pitcher of beer and 2 hours later they wrote the other team in as advancing in the bracket with zero explanation to any of us.
 
R

rmothes

Star Player
The book does say to consult the TD immediately when the protest occurs during a tournament. True, that is where teams get ticked because now everybody needs to wait to play, and it's very uncomfortable for an ump to do that, when they just want to play the game as well.
However, I stick with if it states in the tournament rules a player can only play for one team, then the ump should have handled it right there, but again it should be clearly communicated to umps what should happen if this occurs so they know. I get that he might not want to come off as a jerk and would rather have the TD make the decision. Since the protest occurred quickly in the 1st inning and it sounds as if the illegal player played the field as defense, the penalty would be to undo each play that player made as an out, if any and complete the half inning with the defensive team without that player on the field. If that player was not involved in any defensive play, the half inning stands, but they should not come to bat or take the field again. A harsher penalty would be at least the same call as an illegal bat where you throw the offending player out and the manager. If that means the team no longer has enough players to play, it's a forfeit, or if they still have enough to play, but have to take an out each time those players spots come up in the order.
 
B

baldgriff

Lead Oompah Loompah....
rmothes said:
The book does say to consult the TD immediately when the protest occurs during a tournament. True, that is where teams get ticked because now everybody needs to wait to play, and it's very uncomfortable for an ump to do that, when they just want to play the game as well.
However, I stick with if it states in the tournament rules a player can only play for one team, then the ump should have handled it right there, but again it should be clearly communicated to umps what should happen if this occurs so they know. I get that he might not want to come off as a jerk and would rather have the TD make the decision. Since the protest occurred quickly in the 1st inning and it sounds as if the illegal player played the field as defense, the penalty would be to undo each play that player made as an out, if any and complete the half inning with the defensive team without that player on the field. If that player was not involved in any defensive play, the half inning stands, but they should not come to bat or take the field again. A harsher penalty would be at least the same call as an illegal bat where you throw the offending player out and the manager. If that means the team no longer has enough players to play, it's a forfeit, or if they still have enough to play, but have to take an out each time those players spots come up in the order.
Click to expand...

You cant "unwind" individual outs that may have happened.

Think about it - if the CF catches the 1st out with 2 guys on. Three more players bat. Number 7 guy comes up with bases loaded and flies out to CF with everyone tagging up. 2 more guys bat and they decide to "undo the outs".... Do you give the offense runs? Should the #8 guy have to bat with bases loaded?

It is impossible to try and make that work. If an illegal player recorded an out - game over - forfeit - done.
 
R

rmothes

Star Player
Whoops, you're right, I stated that wrongly. I meant to say you can only unwind the play that just happened, not the whole inning. So if that illegal player makes an out, the protest comes at that point. If it was the 3rd out of an inning, then you would go back putting players on base who were and continue.
 
A

Artie DeVanzo

Addicted to Softballfans
rmothes said:
The book does say to consult the TD immediately when the protest occurs during a tournament. True, that is where teams get ticked because now everybody needs to wait to play, and it's very uncomfortable for an ump to do that, when they just want to play the game as well.
However, I stick with if it states in the tournament rules a player can only play for one team, then the ump should have handled it right there, but again it should be clearly communicated to umps what should happen if this occurs so they know. I get that he might not want to come off as a jerk and would rather have the TD make the decision. Since the protest occurred quickly in the 1st inning and it sounds as if the illegal player played the field as defense, the penalty would be to undo each play that player made as an out, if any and complete the half inning with the defensive team without that player on the field. If that player was not involved in any defensive play, the half inning stands, but they should not come to bat or take the field again. A harsher penalty would be at least the same call as an illegal bat where you throw the offending player out and the manager. If that means the team no longer has enough players to play, it's a forfeit, or if they still have enough to play, but have to take an out each time those players spots come up in the order.
Click to expand...

pzv5j7l.jpg
 
B

baldgriff

Lead Oompah Loompah....
rmothes said:
Whoops, you're right, I stated that wrongly. I meant to say you can only unwind the play that just happened, not the whole inning. So if that illegal player makes an out, the protest comes at that point. If it was the 3rd out of an inning, then you would go back putting players on base who were and continue.
Click to expand...

You are still not close. From the 2016 USSSA rulebook: Rule 4, Sec. 11 C.5 (pg 28 of the book)

"In tournament play, when an ineligible player is discovered during the
game, the offending team loses the game, is ejected from the tournament,
placed last in the standings and forfeits all awards, sponsor travel money and
berths that would have been awarded at that tournament. If this ineligible
player is discovered after the completion of the game (but during the tournament)
the game shall stand as played. However the offending team is ejected
from the tournament and assumes the same penalties as above."


Now full disclosure - League and Tournament Rules supersede the book - but I doubt the TD wrote a rule governing this for the rules.
 
R

rmothes

Star Player
And I'm not a U-trip ump, so my bad if this was concerning a U-trip tourney, I thought it was Shako we were talking about. I will not dispute what it says in the U-trip book, I don't have one of those. I do like how that is written and agree with it 100%. I'm sure it's not thought of by most TD's, but should be. Instances like this occur and the more things you can be prepared for, the better.
 
B

baldgriff

Lead Oompah Loompah....
rmothes said:
And I'm not a U-trip ump, so my bad if this was concerning a U-trip tourney, I thought it was Shako we were talking about. I will not dispute what it says in the U-trip book, I don't have one of those. I do like how that is written and agree with it 100%. I'm sure it's not thought of by most TD's, but should be. Instances like this occur and the more things you can be prepared for, the better.
Click to expand...

I grabbed the U-trip book, but I will check the ASA one also. I havent played in probably 3 years.


This is what I was able to find regarding ineligible players:
Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code and that incur travel and other expenses in connection with an ASA tournament do so at their own risk and peril. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible under the ASA Code are subject to disqualification or forfeiture at any time, as otherwise provided for in the ASA Code (i.e. upon the timely protest of any other team or official).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top